Job Discussion Forums

[tofuman]

Just finishing up my second year. In retrospect, I don't believe that I taught students of oral English anything. I did notice some improvement in one student, but I doubt that it was because of anything I did.

There are some students, about 10%, who have good oral English skills. They had them before I arrived. The rest appear to be at about the same level, which is below that of a five year old native speaker (for many, way below).

Do others feel that they have been successful in their oral English endeavors? Any objective measurement of your success?

[peabocardigan]

I don't think that what students learn is always noticeable for the teacher right away. Learning doesn't necessarily take place in front of our eyes and when we think it should. Having said that, I share your frustrations about 'teaching' oral English, particularly to large, mixed level classes. We (the FTs) have addressed these issues with the university many times but there have been no changes whatsoever. Add to that a total lack of academic support, materials, outlined expectations towards the FTs and you get a bunch of pretty frustrated teachers. And I don't even think our university's story is that uncommon...

[Roger]

For me the concept of "oral English" has since I first heard this term been a non sequitur. You do not "teach" something that you can only practise; and for practice our students need to be a lot more proactive and willing to accept negative feedback.
I won't blame them for being passive since this is widely regarded in China as a "virtue". My suggestion to Chinese English teachers is to start using English as a means of communication and a medium of instruction rather than as an object of study. It is not impossible, indeed it is extremely feasible to give those regular commands and instructions in the target language: "OPen your book on page..." (without Chinese translation), "say after me..." or even explain the grammar rules in English!
Thus better grounded in English, our students would be better able to communicate in English.

Also, I found that "oral English" connotes a whole bunch of different aspects. some students badly need a brush-up of phonetics! Most do not know the difference between long and short vowels, diphtongs and monophtongs ("lav (life!) is short") or the pronunciation differences between 'S' and 'SH'. I also note that they all get the pronunciation of certain letters totally wrong: 'Z', 'G', 'V', 'X', 'CC' for examples.
Thus I devote an increasing amount of my time to teaching them phonetics, then practising pronunciation. I ask them to use their dictionary liberally. Homework or classroom study often revolves around making lists of words where 'A' is pronounced as in 'art" as opposed to 'A' as in 'abolish'.

I think, the situation of an "oral English teacher" lacks a workable definition; we are too free to do as we feel fit when in fact we don't really know our students' needs wich are far more basic than just the need to learn how to talk about certain topics.

[Midlothian Mapleheart]

Edited to remove offensive content.

Middy

[peabocardigan]

I think these are all good points, especially what Roger said about working on phonetics and pronunciation. To me it is still a problem having large and mixed level classes and addressing the needs of different kinds of students It's a logistical problem that could easily be solved but doesn't ...

[tw]

I went back to China last year because I felt that maybe because of my inexperience, I didn't really do a good job teaching oral English. Well, until today I was having doubts about my own teaching ability. Thank you Tofuman and peabocardigan, you have helped me learned to expel the thought that I have been a lousy teacher.

My success story would have to be hearing students pronounce "usually" correctly, and students learning to use "sucks to be you".

[peabocardigan]

I think if people here were graded according to their levels ALL oral English classes could be more successful. But having 50 mixed level students, hence elementary, pre-intermediate and intermediate students lumped together has made my teaching experience here in China very difficult. I try to create a 'fun' atmosphere in the classroom in which my students are neither afraid to express themselves nor to participate. But I can tell you, it's been a pretty challenging experience...

[kev7161]

If I were the god of all things English, here's what I'd do:

1. Schedule "oral" English classes 5 days a week, just like their "regular" English classes.

2. Have a textbook that has "oral" English exercises that corresponds with their "regular" English textbook.

3. Have "oral" English classes immediately following their "regular" English classes. Reinforce what they have just learned from their Chinese teacher and help them with proper pronunciation. Give them a chance to use what they've learned.

4. The foreign teacher attends all of the "regular" English classes and helps the Chinese teacher keep the kids attentive and on track. The Chinese teacher attends the "oral" English classes to do the same. He/She may actually be enlightened when it comes to teaching a foreign language as would the FT by attending the CT's classes.

5. Maximum number of periods for an FT: 20 (10 in the "regular" English class {see above} and 10 in his/her "oral" English class).

6. Students are divided into skill levels.

7. Students follow a regular textbook series throughout the years that builds upon previous lessons and not have a hodgepodge of texts based on each new FT's whims.

8. Maximum number of students per class: 24 or 26 (an even number for practicing dialogues with a classmate).

9. "Oral" english teachers help coordinate English lessons, help choose textbook series (see above), meet with other FTs in department as well as Chinese english teachers - - if nothing else, to feel that they are actually contributing to the well--being of the students and the school at large.

10. Well, what else? What can you add to this list?

You know, I'd feel so much better with myself if I thought what I was doing actually mattered. Many of my students love me, I know. I see it in their faces all the time. But I don't feel many consider me as a "TEACHER" but rather their friend - - maybe even a peer. I don't mind being a friend, but certainly not in the classroom. There definitely should be a dividing line; maybe I'm at fault for not instilling it from day one.

[tofuman]

"Althogh oral skills are not the primary focus of my adult-level classes. I do see quite an improvement in the oral skills of my students due to a high level of oral involvement in the classroom. "

MM, You mention adults and a high level of oral involvement in the classroom. I enjoy neither of these.

In what type of environment do you teach? How many students in a class?

[burnsie]

Ooooooh Tofuman, be careful about these feelings. Having a sense of accomplishment in oral english teaching is dangerous in China. Anyway it's not up to you to learn, you have to have the students that WANT to learn. Sure, you have to make an environment for them to want to learn but you not the one in the driving seat, they are.

You have to remember that 'if you have bad raw materials you will get bad products'.

Education in china is the automated factory line where you put the student on the conveyer belt and watch it pass through the line, not stopping, and letting them fall off the belt at the end in some finished form grasping their certificate.

I know your frustrations, we all want to have some 'worth' but to be in most of the education institutions in China teaching does not give you this.

[tofuman]

Burnsie,

I suppose that "job satisfaction," "meaning," "relevance," etc. are unknown concepts in the place where I work. I can see that young local teachers who have just been at it a few years are already burned out.

Thankfully, I'm moving on. Not leaving China, but this place.

[Midlothian Mapleheart]

Edited to remove offensive content.

Middy

[tofuman]

MM,

It sounds to me like you are a real teacher. One with educational credentials in the field of language acquisition. I can't imagine the average ESL hack getting a job like you have, teaching motivated, educated adults in a university setting.

Anyway, congratulations. I hope to have my hands together soon.

[Jolly]

I don't think "Oral English" is a farce, but I hate the term! I'd rather call it "English Conversation."

English Conversation can be of great value if students are willing to take advantage of it. Lets face it, some students care and some don't. When I taught middle school, all the students were interested in was what time the class was over.

Yes, you usually do find a handful in each class who are interested -- and those students work hard and make great strides in their English language skills.

We can't teach them if they don't want to be taught. <sigh>

Jolly

[burnsie]

MM, sounds like you are in the right place and having fun.

You are completely right. Your students know why they are there, they choose to be there and they know what they want.

When you are in a class which is completely the opposite I know they are, what I call 'fillers'. Filling in time before they move onto something else.

One of my first questions I ask all my students at the start of each class is 'did you choose to be here?'. If I get a few hands I note them down but mainly I don't get any.

I know from the start who wants to learn and who doesn't.

The funny thing is I now know why teaching can be a rewarding job. I sometimes feel 'yeah, this is fun' but somehow this is quite rare.

Anyway we are entertainers here so if you can't entertain your students you might as well entertain yourself.