Job Discussion Forums

tedkarma · Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:57 pm Post subject:

I like this thread � but find it a little bit discouraging that there is so much focus on the minimum required and what employers or labor departments, or visa-issuing agencies are looking for � rather than what a person might find ultimately increases their skills and abilities and satisfaction in the field.

I have both, the qualifications and the experience � and I want to advocate more attention to the qualifications � something that has been significantly pooh-poohed here.

A couple issues here. If you wish to be an educator � I think you should believe in education and in its ultimate ability to create alternatives for people. If you discourage education and say it is only experience that is needed � or we only complete qualifications to satisfy employers or visa requirements � then you are not a real believer in education. Sorry � I am. Okay, not really sorry � just I am. I find it quite interesting that so many people who wish to be called educators � don�t advocate education � don�t really believe in it. Then, how can they believe in what they do? Are they not imposters?

Second, there is something missing in this type of discussion � quite common on this board � and that is the notion that a good, broad-based education, but still somewhat focused in a career area � creates a broad information pool to draw on � one that allows the reasonably well-educated person to solve new, previously unmet challenges and problems. That a mixture of previously unconnected bits of knowledge can solve problems and create solutions � that could not have been solved without the knowledge provided by a better broader education. It�s obvious that many people on this board are quite bright and well-educated � and are obviously creating solutions to problems based on their perhaps general educations � so I don�t know why this phenomenon exists.

Yeah, yeah � hanging on the streets can do that too � or teaching for 20 years � but not really. There is a real difference between one year experience teaching twenty times, and twenty years experience teaching. My background is in learning theory and educational psychology � and I find new challenges everyday in the classroom. A coworker has a similar background and we frequently problem solve issues � I believe � on a much deeper � and ultimately more successful level (for the student and for us) � that lead to more successful and retentive learning on the part of our students.

I don�t believe that if you wish to be an educator � that you should always seek the minimum requirement � is that what you wish for your students? There is an honorable notion about education � and what it provides to people � that really shouldn�t be ignored or blown off � just for the easiest path to follow � or for our convenience.

Back to real issue � I, perhaps rather naively, believe that a better education will eventually lead you to a better career path, greater success in the field, and more satisfaction in what you do. A real career, if you will.

Gordon · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan

Great post Ted.

I agree that people do emphasize the minimum requirements a lot. In Japan, you aren't required to have a TEFL cert, so few people have one. True, many schools around the world do not ask for a TEFL certificate, but that does not mean that it will not help you be a better teacher. For someone without any experience teaching, I don't know how they think they can just walk into a class and start teaching. Then the first time a student asks them even a semi-difficult grammar question, they scratch themself and go "huh?" I am not stating that a TEFL will make you a great teacher, far from it, but it is a good starting point.

Zero Hero · Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 944

moonraven · Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 3094

It's really pretty simple: If you are not educated, you can not educate others.

Remember that the Latin root means to lead.

Why would anyone follow someone who has no leadership ability? Or, more to the point, HOW could they follow him or her?

The same applies in the classoom.

denise · Joined: 23 Apr 2003 Posts: 3419 Location: finally home-ish

Tedkarma--

Your post made me think of a very common theme on this forum: teachers themselves belittling their own jobs. The whole "all you need is a pulse" mentality. Maybe I've just been lucky by landing good jobs at good schools, but I know that the positions that I have had have required a bit more than a pulse. In past jobs, I have designed my own syllabi, selected my own books (or no books, depending on the class), and written my own materials and exams. It always saddens me to read such self-deprecating comments. It doesn't offend me, though, because I don't think they apply to me. I have always taken my job seriously.

d

Jyulee · Joined: 01 May 2005 Posts: 81

I see little unfair in the current situation...

Those that are qualified, experienced and professional tend to be rewarded accordingly with better working conditions and salaries. I agree with the OP, it is silly for those with little of the above to complain of poor working conditions - but in my experience, most don�t.

rainessence · Joined: 19 Jun 2005 Posts: 3

He he he...that sounded slightly condescending on your part and I mean no disrespect. Welcome aboard the esl bandwagon. I currently work for the gov as an Educator...(been 8 years now) I took a sabbatical last year and flew to Italy on a one way ticket and taught English. I have a B.A in Psychology (Specialization) and a diploma in Special Education. I came back home for a while to check status and make a command decision if you will...I am considering returning to Italy and have taken this opportunity to upgrade to the Celta. ( really intensive but worth it IMHO). I have decided after 8 years in social services that I prefer teaching English however my goal as well is to eventually try to work for the public sector in Italy. I am having my credentials recognized in Italy but I don't know if you're aware, in Italy this is a painstaking process...It's been over a year now. I also agree with you re: post graduate degrees. Of course I am trying to circumvent this being 32 and having studied for so many years already but if I had to I would probably invest in the post graduate degree ( Applied Linguistics being one option) i think we could probably help each other out here as we seem to have similar goals. Congrats on the M.S.W ( it really is a solid degree) That is the path I would have taken many moons ago when working here was supposed to be a "stepping stone" now 8 years...(ha ha ha) I wasn't accepted into the program with an above 80 average and already working in social services....Well this is what I think of McGill....(clearing my throat) Smile

It probably worked out for the best really, social work comes with a lot of issues and I have been working on (past two years) shedding the "helper" role . IT FEELS GREAT. wow....voluntary clients, I mean students. What a concept.

All the best,
Sara

Mchristophermsw · Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Posts: 228

Dear rainessence,

Beautiful name by the way! Laughing

I apoligize if my post sounded condensending and that is the problem with online written media, it is hard to convey meaning.

In content to my post, I was actually just frustrated with some people treating ESL like it was a job at McDonalds, that anyone could just walk in and do but then get frustrated when they do not have a good package.

Instead, I think people should be grateful they have the oppertunity to travel, live overseas, work with people without having to had to go finish a fouryear or Grad school. But at the same time, we live in a different world and most of the time you do need appropiate credential to take your career to the next stage or else you hit a dead end real quick.

Nice to meet a fellow helper and the MSW has been very good to me, and I will continue to use my skills to help people but like you, Iam attracted to the education field. I love teaching ( although I am not great at it yet) LOL Wink

And Iam sorry you were not accepted in the program, it seems it was really there lost. I am sure if you would have applied to my program, SJSU, you would have been welcomed with open arms! Smile

Currently, I am doing Psychiatric SW at the Main Jail in my county. I work in the Crisis Unit, make great money, blah, blah, blah, but I am still going back to school part-time for my MA-TESOL LOL Wink

Yes, I know big pay cut loss of benifits ect. But my heart is really overseas. And with our skills we can teach english, but also academic counseling, community developement work, etc.

Any how, thank you for your reply
Please PM, I will love to chat!

ps. Italy? Go for it girl! Wink

Rice Paddy Daddy · Joined: 11 Jul 2004 Posts: 425 Location: Japan

Mchristophermsw · Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Posts: 228

Rick Daddy,

Good points

Except---"As well, more education (for example, getting an M.A.) does not result in higher pay".

I would differ in that a MA "may' not equate to more money depending on the position, but a MA does increase the likely hood of more money and future oppertunities depending on ones goals. And you have more options if the college or university gigs are what you want. Those without the credentials can not even apply to those jobs.

Sheep-Goats · Joined: 16 Apr 2004 Posts: 527

Let's enter the mind of an EFL hirer!

Sheep-Goats · Joined: 16 Apr 2004 Posts: 527