Job Discussion Forums

[krisleach]

Hello! I'm currently teaching in Korea and am planning to move to Thailand in September, when my contract is up. I'm engaged to a Thai man, and plan to marry sometime after I arrive in Thailand. I've been teaching in Korea for five years, taught college-level English classes part-time before coming to Korea, have a B.A. in English, and completed the coursework for an M.A. (but not the thesis, hence no actual diploma). I don't have a TEFL certificate, but plan to take a course once I arrive in Thailand. I'll be 35 when I arrive, and am significantly overweight.

My questions:
1. What's the best place in Bangkok to take the CELTA? Or should I take a different course?
2. I prefer to teach adults. What are my chances getting a university position or teaching at an institute for adults? What's the university hiring cycle?
3. Button-up blouses are dangerous for big women. How strict is the dress code?
4. My fiance is nervous that I'll be unhappy with the change in income and lifestyle in Thailand. It's true that I have a lot of money to burn (or save) in Korea, but I don't really live that extravagantly. (I don't drink much, smoke, or want to pay for sex. ) He also hates Bangkok, and doesn't want to live there long-term. What's a good place to earn a decent living outside the big city?
5. Much of my fiance's family works on Koh Chang. He's willing to relocate with me, but any chance of getting work around there that you've heard about? Most of what I've heard of involves teaching at schools where they'd prefer a bilingual teacher.

Sorry for the novel. (Have I mentioned I'm a worrier and an obsessive planner?) I'd appreciate any advice you have to offer.

[sigmoid]

1) Well, you have a lot of teaching experience and school's in Thailand are begging for teachers. Why do you feel you need a certificate?

2) You can definitely get a university job with your BA and experience. How do you spell desperation? T-H-A-I-U-N-I-V-E-R-S-I-T-Y. The first term just started and the second begins in November. Many schools are still looking for teachers to fill vacancies for this term, for both Thai and foreign teachers.

3) At a university, it is not very strict, but try to look your best. What do you usually wear in the classroom in Korea?

4) Yes, you'll be making a lot less than you do in Korea and the cost of living in Thailand is constantly rising, I suppose like other places. It is still possible to keep your cost of living fairly low if you're able to live a very simple and natural life. The thing you might spend a lot on would be clothes if you are as large as you imply as you may need to get things tailor-made.

5) The nearest university to Koh Chang is Queen Rambhai Barni Rajabhat University. You can see their latest job offer here:
http://www.teflasia.com/ajarn/jobs/chanthaburi/00007501.html

Pay no mind to this part:

Essential Qualifications
1.Native English speaker from USA, UK, Australia, and Canada.
2.Bachelor degree in English/ Applied Linguistics/TESOL
3.Bachelor degree in any field +experience & TEFL/TESOL certificated.

[Sheep-Goats]

Sigmoid knows what he's talking about most of the time, but I'll have to disagree with him on a few points, here:

1) I think there's only one place that offers a CELTA at the moment (in Bankok). ECC in Siam Square. There's on on offer in Puket these days, too, or was it Pattaya? Anyway, even with five years of experience a CELTA will make you a little more competitive, but, to be honest, with five years of experience you're competitive enough, and it's only really weird schools (I worked at one) that will require a CELTA.

2) There's plenty of adult work. University jobs, however, are generally shunned. The reason is the abhorrently low salary -- expect 25,000B a month at a government school -- 30,000 at a private. But those privates paying more than 30,000 (Bangkok U maybe?) want MA TESOLs or have people ingraned and don't hire that often. You could find something with Jr./Sr.s in highschool and probably feel better in the long run. Note that uni jobs at Chulalongkorn or Thammasat (Harvard / Berkeley, sort of) often have high paying overtime laying around (depending on a billion small factors and your connections especially), but those jobs are not easy to wrassle up. I worked at a private university then moved to a private high school and upped my salary by 50%.

3) Uni dress codes are absolutely strict! Men are expected to be in white dress shirts with a tie. Women wear formal business attire. You don't have to wear a button up, I suppose, but that's the standard. The Thai teachers will add a jacket, too. Sweaty time! Thailand has the strictest dress codes for teachers that I've seen or heard of anywhere in the world.

4) If you're in Bangkok things cost more but you make more. If you're outside of Bangkok you get paid less but don't have much to spend your money on. So long as you're qualified, anywhere's as good as the next place in Thailand. Except for Chiang Mai or the islands, which are harder gigs.

5) There's almost no chance of finding English teaching work on Ko Chang. The nearby town of Trat might have something for you -- I'm not sure. Chang has a small Thai community, but I don't think they could throw together 30,000B a month to send your way, even if they all pitched in...

[krisleach]

Thanks sigmoid and Sheep-Goats! You reduced my stress quite a bit. To clear things up, of course I don't dress like a complete slob. At my current institute gig, my coworkers consider me the best dressed teacher. I think that's just because I wear a lot of skirts and dresses, though, rather than how formal those skirts and dresses are. My dresses tend to be on the loose, untailored side. I have a lot of long sleeveless sundresses that I usually pair with a short-sleeved jacket. I tend to pair my skirts with tops that are nicer versions of t-shirts (no logos, one color, heavier fabric, but still basically cotton and roughly t-shaped). I've never had a problem with my attire at any of my jobs in Korea, except for an interview at Pagoda, which is considered the most popular but also most uptight institute in Korea. They gave me a second interview anyway, and I wore a nicer dress and jacket to that interview. I got the job offer, but the point is that the outfit was ridiculously hot, and I'd hate to have to wear the same outfit to every interview in Thailand. Of course, if that's what I need to do, I'll do it!

Am I right that with my experience the general consensus is that I should just get to Thailand, get a cell phone, and start looking? That I should skip the certification thing? It is a lot of money that I'd be happy not to spend.

What's the Jr./Sr. high school hiring cycle?

[Kent F. Kruhoeffer]

Hello Kris!

The guys are probably right;

a CELTA, on top of your BA in English & 5 years of experience would be basically icing on the cake.

You don't really need it, but . . . additional quals never hurt.

The normal academic term at public schools runs from June through March.

Semester 1 - from early June to October

Semester 2 - from early November to March

April & May are the Thai summer holiday months,

but jobs are generally advertised year-round as people come and go

or sometimes fail to show up as promised. Or get fired.

If you click on the Master Index Thailand 'sticky post' located at the top of this forum

and then scroll down to the TEFL FAQ, you'll find some links that might be useful in your job hunt.


There are 2 authorized CELTA courses offered in Bangkok, by the way:


http://www.eccthai.com/training.asp (ECC Thailand :: Bangkok & Phuket)

http://www.eliteinstitute.com/CELTA/index.htm (Elite Training Institute :: Bangkok)

[krisleach]

Thanks Kent! I'm still torn. Do you think it's possible to find a job with a month's vacation (paid or unpaid), so I could take the CELTA then? That way I'd I could get some Thai teaching experience under my belt and then upgrade myself for the next job. I assume that sort of vacation time would be available at universities, but everyone says to stay away from them. I've looked at the institute jobs being listed online, and most offer one or two weeks' vacation. I assume that's standard, because it's the same in Korea. Korean institutes will often give teachers an unpaid month off during the slow season if they want to travel or upgrade their skills. Does doing something like that make sense?

[Kent F. Kruhoeffer]

Hi Kris:

Don't be torn.

First, the possibility of requesting and getting an unpaid month off

is always an option, regardless of where you end up working!

My gut instinct would be to try to find the best possible employment - and let

the CELTA rest on a backburner until the right time & opportunity presents itself.

Getting a large 'paid' block of time off, as you mentioned, will be most likely

at Thai public schools, universities or international schools -

since the summer break is built into their academic calendars.

But - you mentioned you prefer teaching adults.

hmmm.

I guess what I'm trying to say is this: don't let taking the CELTA

interfere with finding the best job with the best conditions.

(regardless of how much time off they're offering!)

Time off is always negotiable, regardless of

what's in the original contract offer!

[tedkarma]

I agree with Kent on the time off issue. I've had good luck in the past telling employers that I wanted certain time off - up to them if paid or not - and suprisingly - always got paid.

[Sheep-Goats]

[krisleach]

Thanks again, guys! To Sheep-Goats: No, I'm not horrified at all to hear about the reluctant university girls. I taught at a Korean univerity for two years, and my students were much the same. Fortunately, my personality, skills and experience have generally won out with good employers who want students to be more than just entertained. The advice about dressing was helpful, though. I expect to dress up for interviews, but was just afraid I'd have to wear something suit-like every day.

I'm thinking of having a few things made when I get there. If I don't need to pay for CELTA, investing a bit in interview clothes makes sense. Any advice on tailors? There are so many, I'm not sure how to choose a good one at a reasonable price. I'm usually the off-the-rack type.

[Sheep-Goats]

If the tailor leads his pitch with "3 suits, 5 shirts, 4 skirs, 2 pairs of pants, a safari hat and I'll throw in six ties for free" it's not the kind of tailor you want. A good tailor will clearly explain the different fabrics he has and what it'll cost you to get something made from each. You should still bargain those prices down, but it's better to start with "this fabric is 10,000, this is 8,000 and almost as good. Here's the polyester at 4,000. Feel / examine each, if you want, to see the difference."

The actual sewing work is done in sweatshops somewhere in Chinatown. The "tailor" you talk too is much more likely a salesman. Once you place your order the real tailor will show up on his motorbike with a piece of chalk. The reason tailoring works well isn't because they take your measurements, really. It's because for any given tailored item you typically try it on and then tell them how you want it adjusted at least two times before the garment is finished. These sessions are called fittings. I had three fittings for the suits I had made, first fitting things were fine. Second fitting the armpits were too tight. Third fitting things were as they should be and I left the store with my suits a few minutes later.

The most famous and expensive tailor in Bangkok is Rajawonse Tailors, on Sukhumvit Road near Soi 4 / The Landmark Hotel. Jesse's made suits for both Bushes. 10,000B for a top of the line imported fabric suit. Which is what you'll pay at any tailor for that kind of fabric.

Top quality local fabric runs about 8,000B a suit. Polyester 4,000B. I don't know prices for women's clothes, for some reason...

You'll find that getting shirts and skirts made is more worth your money than suits. Shirts are about 1000B for Italian cotton, 800B for high quality domestic. Get one suit for your interview, but those tailor made shirts are worth every penny. I used this tailor, as it was near work/home for me, and as the guy was upfront and honest about what he provided. There's more than one branch, but this was mine:

Macway's Exporters
(tel 235 2407, 715-717 Th Silom, opposite the Narai Hotel)

Also, you should stop by ajarn.com before you come to Thailand. Tons of helpful stuff and folks over there -- and the site owner is big into tailors.

[krisleach]

Thanks, Sheep-Goats. I'm grateful for the clear explanation of a subject completely foreign to me. I'll check out the places you recommended after I touch down in September.