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shadowfax
Joined: 31 May 2003
Posts: 212
Location: Pocket Universe 935500921223097532957092196
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 Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:28 am Post subject: |
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First, as a matter of the utmost exigency, and of the all-precious unction that is spotless honour, I must publicly and before all the world challenge the said Bebsi to shew forth an ensample of the split infinitive in any of these my humble lucubrations on this venerable forum. (Maybe then, and only then, I will be forced to adduce places from Shakespeare and other luminaries to deflect the treacherous dart).
Thereafter, I am bounden to chastise the malefic and maleficent, the malapert and subterfugeous use of the rolling-eyed emoticon by this indifferent pensman.
As regards his annulment of all pretension to wit, we might concede that it was VS who first conferred that mantle upon him (though she seems to retract that now by way of her scarcely-veiled scorn of his foibles). I can only say that the said admirer of gaseous and sugar-laden refections was well-pleased with VS's dubious ministrations.
It remains only to confess that I detect some improvement in Bebsi's crepuscular coruscations, perhaps under the sharp tutelage of my humouristous ferule.
Now if you will forgive me I must return to a more fruitful and stimulating labour: the composition of an epic poem based upon the eternal wandering of a grain of sand through the Rub Al-Kali. |
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Bebsi
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 958
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:29 am Post subject: The Exigencies of Clear Communication |
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Shadowfax,
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| ...on texts one might otherwise be distracted from. |
Should the above not have been as "texts from which one might be otherwise distracted"?
I myself would nothing wrong with your way of writing it, but someone with the anally-retentive verbal pedanticism of such as yourself not wish to do it properly.
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| You have my condolences on your lack. Personally I have very few 'penchants' and enjoy having a varied sense of humor. It does make one's life so much more pleasant to be able to smile and laugh at all sorts of human foibles. |
If you spoke or even understood contemporary (twenty-first century)English you would see that VS is very clearly referring to YOU, Shadowfax, not to me. She was referring to what appears to be a significant lack of appreciation of the humour in anything that doesn't involve your own narcissistic verbal constructions.
I very much hope, for the sake of your students, that you do not endeuvaour to teach them what you evidently, judging by your linguistic "style", consider to be the English language.
Let me explain something Shadowfax, that may radically alter your life for the better, should you decide to pay heed: an event occurred, four and a half years ago, known loosely as the-beginning-of-the-twenty-first century. One hundred years before that, an event occurred which was, in many ways, even more significant. That latter event was the end of the nineteenth century, otherwise referred to La Fin De Siecle. Not just in chronological terms, you understand, but in very significant historical, cultural, and linguistic ways! The Victorian era came to an end in Britain, many social changes occurred, a great deal of technical and mechanical innovations were in the process of altering our lives...I would say for the better though I am sure some would disagree.
Whatever one's own personal views of that period of great changes, all would agree on one vital fact, namely that people stopped speaking and writing in a manner that you still seem to do.
Well, there are a few exceptions, who generally appear to be the more pretentious (and dare I say lesser read and appreciated?) of the literary critics among us. It has often been claimed that literary critics are failed writers. You would, I suggest, not wish to be seen in such a light, much less that of an aspiring or even worse, a failed literary critic. Heaven forbid!
I would strongly suggest, Shadowfax, that a more accessible style of writing is in order for you. That way -judging by previous responses to your postings- some of our readers may be able to understand what you write. More pertinently, they may WANT to read what you write.
Communication serves a primary purpose of being understood. It also, I firmly believe, should serve to interest the recipient.
I would venture to suggest that an account of the wanderings of a grain of sand through the Rub Al Khali would, in the hands of some who write in what you would undoubtedly term a prosaic style, provide more humour, mirth and indeed, general interest than the verbal meanderings of your postings, whose only appreciable purpose might be as passages for students of archaic English; such a language has no relevance to, or bearing on the life of the twenty-first century.
For me, there is ONE useful aspect of your passages: they serve as a sort of mini "time-trip", a nice break from the hustle and bustle of the current era. Such usefulness is, however, very limited. Generally speaking, I actually enjoy living in this era. |
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dmb
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 8397
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| ding ding, return to your corners |
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Bebsi
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 958
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:37 am Post subject: Mea culpa |
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| ...but someone with the anally-retentive verbal pedanticism of such as yourself not wish to do it properly. |
In my previous posting, I meant to say "WOULD wish to do it properly"  .
My apologies to all concerned, although despite my gaffe, I am sure that the meaning was apparent to most, if not not indeed all readers  .
I also meant to say that in communication, we use whatever means are available to us and at our disposal. Therefore, if emoticons are there, I will certainly use them.  |
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dmb
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 8397
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| My apologies to all concerned |
I secretly enjoy it when two posters get a bit heated.
ding ding round 2  |
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GrizzlyAdams
Joined: 29 Apr 2003
Posts: 37
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| shadowfax wrote: |
First, as a matter of the utmost exigency, and of the all-precious unction that is spotless honour, I must publicly and before all the world challenge the said Bebsi to shew forth an ensample of the split infinitive in any of these my humble lucubrations on this venerable forum. (Maybe then, and only then, I will be forced to adduce places from Shakespeare and other luminaries to deflect the treacherous dart).
Thereafter, I am bounden to chastise the malefic and maleficent, the malapert and subterfugeous use of the rolling-eyed emoticon by this indifferent pensman.
As regards his annulment of all pretension to wit, we might concede that it was VS who first conferred that mantle upon him (though she seems to retract that now by way of her scarcely-veiled scorn of his foibles). I can only say that the said admirer of gaseous and sugar-laden refections was well-pleased with VS's dubious ministrations.
It remains only to confess that I detect some improvement in Bebsi's crepuscular coruscations, perhaps under the sharp tutelage of my humouristous ferule.
Now if you will forgive me I must return to a more fruitful and stimulating labour: the composition of an epic poem based upon the eternal wandering of a grain of sand through the Rub Al-Kali. |
Well, I for one can see the humour in all your posts! |
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grahamb
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Posts: 1945
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:27 pm Post subject: Pedantic |
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| Pedanticism? Pedantry, surely! Or is it another Yankee mutation/mutilation of the English language (cf "normalcy"). |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Whatever... either way our field is not lacking in it... |
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shadowfax
Joined: 31 May 2003
Posts: 212
Location: Pocket Universe 935500921223097532957092196
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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Had the recklessly loquacious Bebsi (would I be wrong in suspecting that his flirtation with the invidious stereoptype of the insular and alien white-skinned expatriate was more revealing of his true state of mind and orientation than he would have us believe?) acquired some acqaintance with some of the better authors, he would know that the aversion to ending a sentence with a preposition is just that: an adversion and not a rule. It is an animadversion which could probably be dated to the Victorian era and generally a good rule of thumb, but by no means to be applied dogmatically. Those who mistake such matters do indeed show the very spirit of pedantry in its most essential form.
Please stick to your role of adviser on matters appertaining to road transport lest you embarrass yourself any further.
As for all the piffle and freshman's propositions concerning audiences, linguistics, and communication: I had rather gain the appreciative ear of a single Grizzly-Adams than a thousand such Bebsis!
Hence, if I may offer the service to himself that the said Bebsi desired to render to me in bringing about a much-needed and dramatic change of outlook: it is not multitude that determines the presence or the appreciation of humour, or truth.
And with that final killing use of the rhetorician's comma, I must bid farewell to the vanquished spirit of Bebsi, ..... I wish! |
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Bebsi
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 958
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:25 pm Post subject: The Spirit of Pedantry |
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On first reading Shadowfax's latest reply, I felt that a powerful egotism and sense of delusion had overtaken him...well, to be more precise, had FURTHER overtaken him!
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| It is an animadversion which could probably be dated to the Victorian era and generally a good rule of thumb, but by no means to be applied dogmatically. |
For him to accuse me of being either dogmatic or Victorian in my writing style, would indeed rankle of severe delusion. It would be a case of the completely blind accusing the mildly myopic of having poor eyesight.
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| I had rather gain the appreciative ear of a single Grizzly-Adams than a thousand such Bebsis! |
Such an assertion is a further case in point. How could he have possibly mistakenly interpreted Grizzly's comment "I for one can see the humour in all your posts", (perhaps GA would be so kind as to clarify this one?) as referring to HIM, Shadowfax?  This would display a severely deluded perception of himself as being a writer of something that vaguely resembled humour.
I was at a loss to decide how we could help this man.
Then, I read through his ramblings again, as advised by Mrs. Murray, my English teacher of all those years ago, who claimed that one should always read a text twice as the second reading reveal many things the first failed to do. [She also oft claimed that people who write in obscure terminology, and who deliberately strive to obfuscate, are in reality terrified that if the reader understood their words, he might actually realise that they had nothing to say. That however, is a matter that does not merit further discussion at this point.] It then became so apparent to me: it seems that I have indeed started to realise that wittingly or unwittingly, I had started to "(bring) about a much-needed and dramatic change of outlook" in Shadowfax.
The reference to the Victorian era was, to use his own words, "more revealing of his true state of mind and orientation than he would have us believe". It was a tacit acknowledgement of the outdated nature of his writing style.
Reading on in this light, I realised that his deluded assumption of GS referring to him, was simply a pathetic attempt to defer, unsuccessfully, the realisation that he stands alone, and that his humour is not one that has found favour with the masses.
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I had rather gain the appreciative ear of a single... than a thousand such...!
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acknowledges his growing sense of loneliness, and
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| it is not multitude that determines the presence or the appreciation of humour, or truth |
is evidently a final admision that what others think is not important. This of course is a different kind of delusion.
Yes, Shadowfax, humour...or even one's perception of truth, in order to find validity...must strive to find an audience. This is the purpose of writing or indeed of any communication. Tycoons need their customers, preachers need their congregation, presidents need their voters and writers need a readership.
There lies herein one great consolation. That you are content to live and write without an audience, comforts us with the thought that no matter what isolation or alienation you might suffer, you will never really be alone as you have what to you would appear to be the audience you exclusively need: yourself. That is indeed an uncritical audience, and one that shall hang adoringly on your every word.
A final admission of defeat comes in the last lines, an acknowledgement that victory, as you would see it, is a consummation devoutly to be wished:
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| And with that final killing use of the rhetorician's comma, I must bid farewell to the vanquished spirit of Bebsi, ..... I wish! |
Although the italics are mine, those two final words reveal your true state of mind.
Incidentally, what has all of this got to do with Saudi Arabia anyway? Have we lost the plot around here?
Never fear, Shadowfax, for if you ever feel dispirited or melancholy in any way, you can enter this forum where I will hopefully, assuming God grants me the life and health to do so, continue to write for the entertainment, amusement, delight and delectation of some readers at least. |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:20 am Post subject: |
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You two need to get a hobby...
VS |
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shadowfax
Joined: 31 May 2003
Posts: 212
Location: Pocket Universe 935500921223097532957092196
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:58 am Post subject: |
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Quite right VS. I own my own absurdity for becoming somewhat Pepsiized myself by participating in this slanging match.
I shall leave Bebsi to further prolix misrepresentations and twistings, and to the enjoyment of his lower second intellect. I have a vacation to enjoy, God willing.
Before I go, may I suggest to him "7 Types of Ambiguity" by William Empson? Just the bill to refine those gross and populist attempts at demagoguery. |
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Henry_Cowell
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:22 am Post subject: Re: Youmer |
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| Bebsi wrote: |
| shadowfax wrote: |
| ...it is it one of the chief virtues of that land to focus the mind on texts one might otherwise be distracted from. |
Whoooops...split infinitives...is that really where we are at, the situation we are in, the dreadful predicament we are trying to escape from...the only techniques we have to write with????? |
Bebsi, of course, meant "ending a sentence with a preposition" rather than "split infinitives". But who's paying attention anymore? |
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Bebsi
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 958
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:09 pm Post subject: He wished!! |
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Psssssssst...has he left?
PHEEEEEWWWWWWWW!!!! Rid of him at last
To other, equally unimportant matters:
| Quote: |
| Bebsi, of course, meant "ending a sentence with a preposition" |
Of course, Henry, you are right. I later became aware of this, but I was sure Shadowfax wouldn't notice, as he was too busy engaging in verbal lumberjackery on bushes, to see the wood, full of giant Californian Redwoods, about to crash down on him .
But, yes, well spotted Henry!!
And GrahamB,
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| Pedanticism? Pedantry, surely! Or is it another Yankee mutation/mutilation of the English language (cf "normalcy"). |
What pedanticism you indulge in!! Yes, I know it's pedantry, but I am not averse to altering words from-time-to-time for extra literary effect. Where is the harm, as long as the spirit of the message is not lost? And langauge is nothing if not innovative!
However, to accuse me of being an English-language-mutilating-Yankee...that's another matter  I am not American, I am from the wetter and non-George-Bush-supporting side of the great oceanic divide. In any event, what's wrong with normalcy? Language is in a constant state of change, and if 300 million people decide what constitutes normalcy, who are we to contradict them?
Shadowfax, if perchance you decide to pay a last-minute visit to our site for a spot of sadomasochistic pleasure prior to departing on your vacation, may we wish you a good one!! (Bet the American version of the word will annoy him?) |
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Bebsi
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 958
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:17 pm Post subject: Vacation |
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Dammit, I've just realised that Shadowfax himself used the word Vacation
Does that mean to shatter my image of him as a pipe-smoking, bearded and bespectacled don from Ye merrie Englande, wearing a tweed jacket with leather elbow-patches? Stereotyping just doesn't pay.
So, he may after all be a baseball-cap wearing, betracksuited, gum-chewing, rap-lovin', baseball-mad dude? Nope, you just can't stereotype people, can you? |
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