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Songbird
Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 630
Location: State of Chaos, Panic & Disorder...
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 Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:06 am Post subject: English Universal Growth Education Center |
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Hello all,
I've actually wandered over here from the China forum (I'm teaching in China at the moment)- I've been looking thru some ads for a job for Jan next year (I know, I know, early!) and I came across an ad on the ESL Teachers Board for this company in Taiwan and thought I'd take the liberty to let you know this recruiting company CHARGES A FEE FOR THEIR SERVICES!! HUH??!!
So be wary.....maybe others have been recruited by them and want to continue the topic?? Here's the ad:
*** PLEASE SEND US YOUR RESUME AND PHOTO
WELCOME TO ENGLISH UNIVERSAL GROWTH Education Center
A leading institution of finding ESL teaching Jobs in Taiwan
English Universal Growth is a leading recruit organization entrusted by schools and teachers all over the island. Our organization ensures schools that we will find them the best and most qualified ESL teachers and guarantees teachers that we will place them in respectable institutions. Choose our organization if you need a job referral and placement. We will listen to your needs, negotiate a contract in your best interest, assist you in adjusting to a new teaching/ living environment, and serve as the contact window between you and the school. Quality is our first priority and we want to make sure you are happy and satisfied with the job we placed you in. We ask for a small fee for the extensive service we will provide you. For teachers who are overseas, we charge US $295 for placing you in a full-time position and US$ l95 for teachers who are already in Taiwan. Once again, choose EU Growth if you need want an organization who firmly believes in honesty and quality.
Current Jobs Available:
l Job Position in July in Yi-Lan
A cram school in Yi-Lan is looking for one full-time teacher from the afternoon to the evening. In a classroom, there are about l0 to l6 students. The total teaching hour is l00 per month from Monday to Saturday. The total office hour is l0- l5 hours per week. There is no office hour on Saturday. The teaching hours from Monday to Friday is 4:00-9:00 and the teaching hour on Saturday is from l0:00 � l2: 00 and l:00-3:00. The salary is 60,000- 62,000. The school provided attendance bonus. The salary is negotiable after the school evaluates you and find you very experienced. If the teacher plans on teaching more, it can be arranged. Each hour is still 600NT. The teacher is preferably American or Canadian, and has teaching experience in Taiwan.
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:24 am Post subject: Re: English Universal Growth Education Center |
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| Songbird wrote: |
| thought I'd take the liberty to let you know this recruiting company CHARGES A FEE FOR THEIR SERVICES!! HUH??!! |
I don't want to offend, but what is the problem with the recruiter charging you the fee, so long as this is made clear upfront.
Of course most recruiters don't charge the teacher, as they collect the money from the school, but is this really the best way to go. Afterall, as the schools are paying the recruiter they really hold all the cards, and maybe this is why recruiters have so much trouble making sure that the teachers are happy. When push comes to shove you can be sure that the recruiter will side with the school as they are the ones paying, and if the recruiter doesn't do this then they run the risk of losing business. A recruiter that doesn't make money wouldn't last very long no matter how well he or she protected the interests of the teachers.
So under the current system, the recruiters really work for the schools, not the teachers.
In the current situation where the schools pay the recruiter, and the teachers get the service for free, the teacher is nothing but a commodity to be basically bought and sold. If however the teacher was paying for the service then they become the paying client, and this way you can almost guarantee that the recruiter will want to do the right thing by you as they would want to collect their money.
I see a number of advantages to dealing with a recruiter that you need to pay for provided that a number of conditions could be met:
1. The recruiter would have to guarantee that they are not collecting a payment from the school, as this would create a conflict of interest that would nullify the proposed benefits of having a fee paying service.
2. The recruiter would need to provide a clear outline of services rendered, and these services should probably include follow up services and replacement allowances - depending of course on how much they charge.
3. There would have to be some form of quality guarantee to ensure that you don't pay for something and get given something else.
If a company was able to do the above well then I believe that paying a fee for a recruiter who is going to look after you as a paying client, is likely to be far more advantageous a service than the 'free' service that basically places you with the highest bidder.
I place 'free' in quotes as I don't really see that the current services are really free. There is a cost, and you can be sure that no one else is going to wear this cost. I am sure that the school would factor in the recruitment cost and that this would have some bearing upon the wages and conditions that they would offer the teacher. If the school could secure you without cost then surely you would be able to negotiate a better deal, which could quite possibly mean more money in your pocket than what it cost you to find the job in the first place.
And remember, just because something is free doesn't mean that it is good value nor in your best interests to accept. |
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Ki
Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 475
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:03 am Post subject: |
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You really need to weigh up your options to decide if the job offered by the fee-up-front recruiter is better than anything else on offer, recruiter or otherwise. You really need to work out if this US$200 will be money well spent over, say, twelve months. If it takes you an extra week to find and start a job or you find a job with slightly less hours or slightly less pay then US$200 really isn't that much.
But I wouldn't even consider paying the $300 fee from outside Taiwan, nor even the $200 until I have seen the school.
Clark, in your point # 1, do you mean the one off payment (about NT$30,000) for finding the school a teacher or an ongoing payment? I would assume that they would collect the one off payment, whether collecting a fee from you or not.
To the best of your knowledge, do other recruiters collect an ongoing fee from the school? Even when you sign the contract with the school? I know that this is one of the many reasons why you should never sign a contract with a recruiter but I was wondering if you, or anyone else, knew if recruiters collect an on-going fee regardless. The reason is that it seems that a lot of the positions offered by recruiters seem to be quite low. Maybe the schools factor in the one-off cost over twelve months.
For a recruiter to offer extensive services without actually explaining what these services are would probably suggest that these are minimal. Sorry, my mistake, the advert said extensive service. (singular). Well, I guess you know what you get then. Not sure what the extra US$100 fee for out of Taiwaners is for then.
Not sure what kind of quality guarantees a recruiter would want to give to a teacher. I'm sure they will "give" you many guarantees until they get your money, and the school's.
Clark, I do agree with you that a recruiter that treats you as the client, and not the school, will probably be better than the "free" recruiter. But I just don't believe that you are the only client here. The school is also the client and in the end they will probably treat you similarly to the "free" recruiter. It really depends on the individual recruiter but I don't see how they are any better, nor worse, than any other "free" recruiter. Just see what jobs they offer you and what you want. And don't get suckered into living in some random small town in the middle of nowhere for crap wages.
I really don't want to comment on the job offered except I would hate to work in a school that places greater emphasis on being North American than on experience and qualifications. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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Good points Ki.
Let me start by saying that I am not suggesting that the company that this thread is about is a good company to go for. I am pretty sure that they are a new company, and I don't know enough about them to offer a valid opinion.
My comments were aimed at the idea of recruiters who charge teachers.
| Ki wrote: |
| Clark, in your point # 1, do you mean the one off payment (about NT$30,000) for finding the school a teacher or an ongoing payment? I would assume that they would collect the one off payment, whether collecting a fee from you or not. |
I mean both.
In order to be totally fair to fee paying customer I think it only fair that the recruiter not be collecting money from both sides. I am not suggesting that it is economically viable to do this, I am just suggesting that I could see some value in a recruitment company that did guarantee that they weren't collecting money from the school, and this would be the only type of company that I would pay a cent to.
If the company named above is collecting money from both parties then I would have to say that I think they are just being greedy and should be avoided. I know that the recruitment company AACircle were doing exactly this at one time in the past, and I can certainly see no justification for the teacher to pay for the service if the school is also paying.
| Ki wrote: |
| To the best of your knowledge, do other recruiters collect an ongoing fee from the school? |
None to my knowledge.
I am certain that it did happen in the past, but I think that it has almost entirely been phased out due largely to education of newly arrived teachers.
I suspect that there are some companies that are still skimming off teachers wages and this is why I recommend that teachers always insist that the school pay the teacher directly, and that the salary amount is stated in the contract that is signed with the school. In doing this you are guaranteeing that there will be no misunderstandings in the future.
| Ki wrote: |
| The reason is that it seems that a lot of the positions offered by recruiters seem to be quite low. Maybe the schools factor in the one-off cost over twelve months. |
I don't know that this is really true. Some positions offered by some recruiters are certainly well below standard, but there are often mitigating factors that need to be considered. For example, many of these positions are in rural areas where a school approached directly would still pay that much.
I am sure that schools factor in the agents fee when they work out how much they can afford to pay the teacher, so I am sure that it has some bearing on the deal offered by the school, but this amount would be negligable.
| Ki wrote: |
| For a recruiter to offer extensive services without actually explaining what these services are would probably suggest that these are minimal. Sorry, my mistake, the advert said extensive service. (singular). |
Agreed. The recruiter would need to lay out very clearly what they are offering and when it will be supplied to the teacher.
| Ki wrote: |
| Not sure what kind of quality guarantees a recruiter would want to give to a teacher. I'm sure they will "give" you many guarantees until they get your money, and the school's. |
In my example the recruiter doesn't collect any money from the school. Although the recruiter could always take your money and run, I doubt that this would be widespread. Word would spread about the good recruiters, and the bad, and as the teachers would be paying you could be sure that the level of information available about recruiters would rise.
| Ki wrote: |
| But I just don't believe that you are the only client here. The school is also the client and in the end they will probably treat you similarly to the "free" recruiter. |
My example above is based on the theory that you are the sole paying client. The school pays nothing. |
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Ki
Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 475
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:34 am Post subject: |
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Cheers. It is difficult to get my head around this whole recruiter business. I know that your example was based on the theory that you are the sole paying client. I just don't think that this is true in practice.
I don't think that the recruiter would take your money and run as such, just that their service may deteriorate somewhat. Who knows what will happen if their service doesn't exactly match what they say? What will happen if you pay your money and the job turns out sour? Does anybody have any experience with them? |
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