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Tamara · Joined: 24 Jul 2004 Posts: 108

A little vent, with a plea for advise at the end:

Yesterday, I had a conversation with my graduate advisor--the director of the MA TESOL program--in which she likened peer editing or proofreading to plagarism or cheating. Later, she told me plagarism isn't the right word, but that it is a form of cheating. She couldn't believe that I would ever even offer to help classmates by proofreading their papers before they turned them in. She acted as if this was something I should know.

I was very shocked. I thought peer editing is a part of the process of writing. Having someone else, someone disconnected from the text, read a paper to spot grammar and spelling errors or even to point out a digression, is the last step before turning in a paper.

I told her I'm very willing to abide by her decision on this subject, but that if they want to make it a rule, they should include it in the handbook. She said I am only the second person she's ever had to address this issue with. She offered what she called a "worst case scenario" about a father of a nationally recognized debator who had paid someone to write her speaches. Apparantly, she got caught plagarising based on his example. She likened it to filling in answers on somebody's classwork. She compared it to mothers who do their children's homework.

I'm having trouble connecting what I consider to be a valuable writing tool (peer editing) to cheating or writing someone else's paper (which isn't what I was doing). Can anyone please shed some light on this topic for me? Specifically, I'm looking for an industry stance on the topic. Do most TESOL programs consider peer editing among their students to be unethical? Do any encourage it as a part of the overall writing process?

darkhorse · Joined: 05 Jun 2005 Posts: 78

And how does this "teacher" feel about spellcheck?

Proofreading and editing, peer or otherwise, are most emphatically NOT plagiarism. I don't see how anyone in their right mind could think otherwise. I was a copy editor and proofreader for a publishing company for years. How anyone could equate those positions with encouraging or promoting plagiarism is beyond me.

Your "teacher" seems to have quickly shifted from her position/accusation of plagiarism by citing what appears to be a case of..... plagiarism.

I don't know what "industry standards" are for TESOL, but I know what the publishing industry standards are.

P.S. If peer editing is so heinous, what about peer grading? As an undergraduate at U.C. Berkeley I had to endure peer "graduate" students grading my papers in classes of 800 students. I took one "graded" paper, confronted the professor of the course, and she quickly changed the grade...(higher, not lower ).

Gordon · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan

I think peer correction or editing is fine. I think there is a grey area here as sometimes editing turns into writing. My wife proofreads every paper i write just before I hand it in (kind of a Royal Assent) and sometimes she sees some really obvious stuff that my brain missed.
Your advisor seems pretty unreasonable here. I suppose it never came up because it is assumed by most people to be alright.

darkhorse · Joined: 05 Jun 2005 Posts: 78

Gordon is right--it never came up because it is so self-evidently not an issue. And peer review/editing is more than fine in one's own opinion. It's not plagarism or anything approximating it.

Of course editing can cross over the line into writing. In publishing we don't often hear about those cases, although I seem to remember Ms. Spock (the doctor's wife, not the Vulcan) claiming, in divorce papers, that she wrote parts of the child-rearing bible he penned.

In any case, don't let this so-called teacher bully you....and have as little to do with her as possible.

GambateBingBangBOOM · Joined: 04 Nov 2003 Posts: 2021 Location: Japan

Justin Trullinger · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 1:52 am Post subject:

As a self admitted appalling typist, I rely on editing, peer and otherwise, of most any written material I produce. I'm not a bad writer, and have written professionally, but my drafts are filled with typos. It's made worse by the fact that most of my writing is done in a second language, and the accent mark keys on the various computers I use are NOT in the same place. But the mind tends to read what it expects to see, so proofreading my own stuff is pointless. I never see the errors, even when they're obvious.

Since you've posted, I've also ran this by a few university professor friends, and all agree with me: your prof is either a) NUTS! or b) responding to a situation out of context. She's probably seen actual plaigarism in some case (not yours) and is going over the top to prevent a recurrence.

But I'm forced to ask, who in his or her right mind would turn in graduate level work without making sure it doesn't contain errors. And pointing out someone's errors, whether grammatical, orthographic, or simply not making sense, is NOT the same as writing or rewriting their work.

Good luck,
Justin

denise · Joined: 23 Apr 2003 Posts: 3419 Location: finally home-ish

Peer editing was required for part of our portfolio project in my MA program--not only for spelling and grammar purposes, but also as an exchange of ideas within the academic community. I can't imagine how anyone could liken an open exchange of ideas with plagiarism.

d

darkhorse · Joined: 05 Jun 2005 Posts: 78

Tamara · Joined: 24 Jul 2004 Posts: 108

Just to clarify, since it's come up, this prof only mentioned it because she heard me talking about editing papers. There was no mention of how she or any other prof had noticed similarity in papers or anything else for that matter. The whole situation was last semester, and it wasn't her class.

She said that as masters students, we should learn what it means to be a scholar, and that means editing our own papers. This particular program draws international students, and in fact, native English speakers are the minority. She emphasized that by proofing their papers, I'm doing them a disservice by not making them learn how to be good writers of English by themselves. (I even asked about just pointing out errors and letting them correct the errors themselves. She acted like that might be acceptable, but she doubted that what I was doing was so educational for them.) She even said that it is not my job to help them become better writers. It's their (the professors') job.

Also, I clarified for her, and I'd like to emphasize here again, I proof read a final draft. I checked for spelling and grammar. On the occasion that I did see a digression from the thesis, I told the student that the thesis could be more developed or that a particular paragraph didn't speak to the thesis. I refused to offer or add content--I merely helped finalize a paper.

GambateBingBangBOOM · Joined: 04 Nov 2003 Posts: 2021 Location: Japan

darkhorse · Joined: 05 Jun 2005 Posts: 78

post deleted

JonnytheMann · Joined: 01 Dec 2004 Posts: 337 Location: USA

I think your professor has a valid reason for not wanting you to correct other students' papers. If you're in the same class, then you have the same essay assignment, right? If you get to read a lot of different students' papers, you get the chance to read other ideas you might not have thought of. After "proofreading" their papers, you can go back and make your paper stronger. I am not saying that you actually do this, but it's something that you could do. And as an academic, you need to give the impression of absolute integrity.

I had a prof who gave us take-home essay tests. We'd always bring them into the class when they were do and then exchange tests with classmates. The classmates would read our tests and critique them. We then had the choice to take back the tests and improve them, or turn them in as they were. He said he wanted us to do this because it was scholars exchange ideas. In reality, sometimes people would do a piss-poor job on their tests on purpose and just read someone else's test to get the jist of what a good answer would be. Why do the hard work of thinking when you can just read someone else's thoughts on the same question?

My advice is to stop correcting your peers' papers. Send them to the campus writing center, or have them pay grad students in other departments to be their editors. It shouldn't be your concern to edit their papers.

Gordon · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan

Ben Round de Bloc · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1946

moonraven · Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 3094

Peer grading and peer editing are absolutely invaluable in terms oif helping folks improve their writing. Over 35 years ago I used that system with undergraduates at the university where I was teaching.

Students in the same class did peer grading and editing--and they also received a grade for those activities. I also usually had at least one former student who volunteered to grade a few sets of papers a week. In those cases, students already had 2 grades and sets of comments on their papers before I read them.

The result: one of my freshmen classes "won" the English department contest for best writing (freshmen through grad students were included.)

It works. And anyone who says it is plagiarism or similar b.s. should be canned on the spot.