Job Discussion Forums

[sghovd]

Hello,

I am 23y. m. from BelgiumI�ll try to make this as complete as possible, yet as compact as possible.

First of all, I am glad I found this forum in my search to interactively research this area of teaching. Cheers to Dave and everyone who constructively contributes to this place!

I graduated from highschool successfully. Between graduation from highschool and starting my studies at the uni. in Holland, I had two years of traveling within Europe and America, combined with doing some work in factories and warehouses in between when I was home in Belgium.
Right now I am in Philadelphia visiting my dad for the summer where I am working in a restaurant for the moment, learning a basic organizing/barbusiness skill or two.
throughout my traveling and my �feeling� for language throughout my whole life, I developed a decent fluency in my English, especially on a conversational level.

I actually met 1 person so far who teaches English as a second language at Temple Univ. here in Philadelphia. She told me that my level of spoken English is way enough for teaching. Still, she assured me that being able to teach EFL does not depend on fluency alone, as teaching is an art on its own.

So I am very serious about taking a course that will teach me the skills to teach, more particularly I am looking at trying to find a course on the America n side of the continent, be it North America or South America, I don�t know yet.

As of writing this, the country I want to start teaching most at the moment is Brazil. I�ve been reading through these posts about Brasil here on this forum and starting to have an Impression about the dynamics in this area, as those dynamics also tend to happen more on a social level.

However, I�m still very confused about which courses are the best way to go given my personal goals in this area.
I see a lot of websites that talk about the Trinity and Cambridge certifications being the most recognized, but sometimes I see courses that are cheaper and also mention that it is important to have an external body verify the quality of English, in the form of yet another abbreviation.

How can I know which external body is a good one? Anyone knows which certification bodies are fake/scam/mob/worthless/fishy/whishy-washy?
Courses to absolutely avoid?

Courses that are Highly recommended? Too bad its so hard to review courses, right?


Sincerely,

Kevin

[waxwing]

Before thinking too hard about courses, you need to address the question of citizenship and native language. If, as seems clear, your passport is Belgian and your native language is French or Flemish, then I would characterise your chances of getting a TEFL job in Brazil as vanishingly small. That might well be true for the whole of South America, but I don't want to make meaningless generalisations.

(CELTA and Trinity TESOL are the only two courses recognized by the British Council. CELTA has a significantly wider currency. There are countries in which any scrap of paper will do.)

But without native speaker citizenship, you are in for a lot of trouble.

Frankly, even here in China, which is probably just about the easiest country in the world to get a TEFL job, you will be restricted to the worst type of employer - fly-by-night private schools. And even then, you may find yourself having to lie.

Sorry if I'm the bearer of bad tidings. I can tell that your English is very good ... but that in itself is no surprise - I've known a few Belgians with very good English. All the same, there is the question of accent, which I can't assess here.

My advice: if you really want to be a teacher (of anything), then take it seriously and become well qualified. These four week certs. like CELTA are not really intended for you, they're intended for native speakers who have a weak academic background and no experience of teaching, to get their foot in the door. And most of them just use it to "play" at teaching. (I have no problem with that, by the way, it's just the way it is.)

[dajiang]

I don't think Waxwing's comments are entirely true.

I'm Dutch myself, hence not a native speaker, but I didn't have any problems getting a job in China. The only thing that was important there were my qualifications. At the time I didn't have a degree, although I did get a TEFL diploma. This meant that I could only work at private schools, which I enjoyed anyway.
At the moment I'm back at uni getting a degree in teaching. It's going really well, and I'm sure I will go back to China to teach there. I'm sure that my nationality won't be a problem in other countries like Japan and Korea either. I might try it over there later on in life, for now I just prefer China.

Waxwing is right in saying that we have to try harder to get jobs, and get the same benefits as others. Applying online is much harder, and you'll have more chances of getting a good job somewhere by already being in the country/city, so you can apply in person. Calling schools up over telephone works well too, so that they hear you've got a neutral accent. I usually don't mention my nationality until later on, and by then it's really not a problem anymore. It obviously won't help to start by saying you're not a native speaker. You've got to be assertive, confident and know your stuff.

Qualifications are most important, often because it's stated by law that teachers must at least have a bachelor's degree in order to get the proper visa. (Japan, China, Korea, Taiwan) I don't know how this is in South America.
If you don't have a BA yet this will be the biggest obstacle in finding a job. Getting TEFL certified alone is not enough. I do recommend it though, since it will make your teaching skills better. I do feel like I have to prove myself first before an employer hires me, and a good employer would ask the right questions as well. In order to be more professional I think a TEFL diploma is definitely worth it. At least you'll know what you're doing.

CELTA is obviously the main diploma to get. Can't go wrong with CELTA.
TESOL trinity is the other one as you've found out yourself.
You should do checks on other TEFL courses: ask the people here on eslcafe of course, and inquire about the course in detail. Compare the curriculum to others, and if you feel comfortable with it, then there's no problem.

All the best,
Dajiang

[Doglover]

[sghovd]

Thank you guys!

I am flemish, so yes my native language is Dutch.
One way to go maybe is to use both my resilliance in English and Dutch and focus on business English and teaching in Brussels.
Waxwing, do you remember if those belgians that were good at English were from the Wallonian (French) or Flemish (Dutch)?

I had a lot of French in High School, but then so do many people in my country. Hm...

What I heard from you guys is really sort of a bummer, but then again, there must be a way though. And of course I am serious about this. I can help a lot of people with their English already, sometimes americans in here don't realize that I'm foreign, or that they couldn't tell. Sometimes its them trying to kiss my jazz, but after a while you're able to tell whether they're being sincere or not.

I hate to be bragging, but I need to bring this sort of stuff up for reference

So courses similar to the four week CELTA's are not really for me? Hmm...

Any further recommendations on what I can do?

[Cdaniels]

did you mean courses like CELTA are not for you, or is an actual CELTA course is also out of the question? I'm also not sure what waxwing means by the courses "aren't intended for you," More to the point, how is your Dutch? Would you feel comfortable teaching Dutch to a native English speaker, the rules, the grammer and the vocabulary? Ultimately its not about your English speaking ability, but your ability to teach and transfer these skills to students. While fluency may help you get the job, it will be very frustrating if you don't like teaching those who don't have the "feel" for aquiring new languages. It might be a good idea to try and learn some Portugese before you go, then you could ask Brazilians for their opinions!
PS "kiss my jazz" is such a cute expression! Did you make that up or have you heard it somewhere?

[waxwing]

By intended I meant "designed" - as I said, for native speakers with little or no background in teaching. As far as I'm aware, the proportion of people taking these courses who aren't native speakers is pretty small. To give you an idea, on my course, there was one non-native speaker, and she'd been at University in Scotland for 4 years. There is no doubt that occasionally this caused problems for her, and she was very disheartened when she started to read job ads - nationality is ALWAYS specified. Just look at the jobs offered page on this website. Actually, I don't know what she's doing now.

My point about Brazil is that it's a tough place in terms of visa requirements (6 mth limit), low pay and its popularity with potential teachers because of the lifestyle.
I'll say it again, since people seem to be puzzled by my answer ... get well qualified. CELTA doesn't count IMHO. If you see this as some kind of vocation, then go for it and do the job properly.

On the other hand, if you see it as just a really fun idea, some travelling etc., then you're welcome to give it a shot, and yeah try to enrol on a CELTA/Trinity course - but in that case I don't think we should paint a rosy picture for you that doesn't exist. On the international market, you're competing against native speakers, so you can hardly be surprised if it's not so easy.

Again, in China and other parts of Asia, a white face is often enough to get a job, but what kind of job is that likely to be?

Your confidence in your abilities in English is not going to be enough to persuade most reputable employers, however well grounded it may be. Don't forget that often the person who hires you is a local, and they are not good enough to judge your level. They look for the passport/nationality FIRST, and everything else second. In Asia, unscrupulous employers / employers who don't give a **** about the education of their students will look at the photo first, and that's where you have a shot (presuming you're white), but again, is that what you really want?

I promise not to post any more, I'm just repeating myself now

[dmb]

A few years ago I worked in a prep program in a university in Turkey. One of my colleagues was a native german speaker and citizen.

[dajiang]

Pravilno, Waxwing.

[ls650]

[matttheboy]

I did my CELTA in Sydney with a Swiss girl who spoke nigh on perfect english but with a slight german lilt. She found work in Sydney no problems because if you had the CELTA you could find a job (at least back in 2002).

You could say that your mother is English and father Belgian. You just say you only have dutch nationality and as such a dutch passport. If your english is very good (your writing skills suggest so) and your accent is not too strong you might well get away with it, especially here in South America where you won't be submitting your passport in order to get a work permit. Because almost no one has a work permit and works on a tourist visa.

Good luck.


Late EDIT: Sorry- Belgian passport/nationality

[sghovd]

Thank you very much,

Waxwing, I still take your input to heart though .

Seriously though, nothing is one way or the other and I think its very key to get familiar with the dark side as well as the bright one for progress' sake

Just a quick note that I appreciate your input, guys. Very helpful.

Kiss my Jazz... thank you for noticing. Glad you like it. It's actually the name of a Belgian experimental sorta arty farty band.

Talk to you soon!

Sincerely,

Kevin

[sghovd]

I have no teaching skills whatsoever and I will take a teacher training no questions asked.

I very much realize that there's is no point in thinking that you can teach the content only by knowing the content.

But then again, developping communication skills is the lion's share of my purpose now, so on that part....

Which sort of courses do you recommend, provided I will go to South America? CELTA still seems the way to go.

[dmb]

[sghovd]

Thank you dmb.


Like I said I am currently in philadelphia and would very much like to do a CELTA course close to here. The closest one I can find is one in New York, which is $2,000+ accomodation not incl.

That is rather expensive.

The reason I want to follow an american one is because I am making dollars now and I hardly have any euros.