Job Discussion Forums

[tw]

Know why so many peasants look for work in restaurants? Because to them it's the best deal, believe it or not. No, it has nothing to do with poor education or lack of skills and experience. I knew of restaurant workers who were either extremely smart, or have graduated from college. So they get paid 400 or 500 a month working 12+ hour days. But they get free accomodation or say at most around 40 RMD a month (in the case of workers woring at my last school). Their meals are included. One girl I knew was making 400 a month and she was sending home 300+! Those who want the quick bucks go into the sex trade business for a year or two and then go home to open up a business like a flower shop or, you guessed it, a massage parlour.

[go_ABs]

tw, I don't doubt your Chinese skills. But can you clarify something for me? I was taught that the word 'receipt' is "fa piao", not "kai piao". A dialect thing? Cheers.

I don't know what we ought to be earning, but I know what I am, and what my teaching assistant is. I work between 12-14 hours a week, easy stuff, teaching kiddies. My TA works from 10am to 7 or 8pm, often 6 days a week. She does a hard job, fresh out of uni, doing a lot in a language she's yet to master.

I earn ten times her salary.

(How many other FTs here feel a bit guilty picking up their salaries? I get this wadge of bills for doing a great deal less than the local teachers.)

[lowes13]

I don�t think any of us should necessarily feel guilty about our salaries but I do feel we should all think about what we earn in relation to our Chinese friends/colleagues. This forum is full of posters complaining about how little they earn and how badly they�re treated in China and yet in relation to their peers they do in fact earn a great deal.

Consider our teacher colleagues and what they earn; new teachers may earn 1200-1500 RMB per month and experienced teachers in the region of 2000-2500 RMB. This salary is for a full week of work Mon-Fri or Mon-Sat of full days, the people earning these salaries have degrees and even post graduate degrees. Compare those salaries to those of foreign staff within the same schools who don�t possess degrees and are earning 4000-5000 RMB for working 12-16 hrs per week! Is there anything wrong with this earnings disparity? The market says no, no problem, because China is still prepared to give jobs to inexperienced, unqualified people from the West regardless of there background so enjoy the ride and salary it affords.
Think of this scenario:
A Chinese male teacher, 28, Masters Degree in maths, wife and child to support earning 2300 RMB. His colleague is a foreign �teacher�, 20, who has an online TEFL certificate, earning 5000 RMB and has a DVD collection to support. Something wrong! Again the market for foreigners is huge, the demand is high and therefore these things are possible and so why not take advantage of the situation. I don�t believe the situation will, in its present form, last much longer but as long as it does then I don�t frown upon anyone who takes the opportunity. I do, however, find the bitching and whinging out of place many times.
When I decided I wanted to go to China I also thought about the fact that I don�t have an English related degree or even the TEFL certificate but I was informed that it wasn�t necessary and my background in training would be useful, so I came. My thoughts were that to teach English you need to have a degree in English, Linguistics etc. but of course since arriving I�ve discovered that my job is to assist students in practising the English they�ve acquired over the years. I don�t give myself the title of teacher; I simply supply the circumstances which will encourage my students to practise their English.
Someone who comes to China to teach and who is qualified to assume that title in their own country is worth every jiao they receive here in my opinion given the frustrations that the work can generate.

For those who are not qualified teachers in their home country and who complain about the salary, hours, Chinese people I would suggest some restraint is in order. I personally feel it�s possible to do very well, relatively, with regard to salary and all the other perks provided to us. This is one of the few places in the world where this is still possible, remember that.

Feels good to get that out, phew.

Cheers

[anthyp]

Our salaries are high compared to the locals, sure, but the Chinese are slowly catching up.

I imagine that they will be offering jobs at EF for 4000 RMB a month 10 years from now, when the average Chinese salary has climbed to nearly that same amount! Already, in Shenzhen, you might find that your paltry 5000 RMB doesn't go very far. So the day may come when Chinese people feel sorry for us for making so little, assuming EFL wages don't increase (and there's no reason to expect they will).

Anyway, you shouldn't feel guilty about your pay or worry too much about the market. I honestly believe that, if you are a professional teacher who takes his or her job seriously -- which of course entails being properly qualified, let's be real! -- you have every right to make as high a wage here as people will pay you. I feel a slight pang of guilt standing next to my lovely Chinese colleagues, sure, but the fact of the matter is, their English is not as good as mine ... and we are English teachers, right? They know by now I can offer the school's students things they simply cannot.

So, don't feel bad about your pay ... unless you're one of those dancing monkeys we keep hearing about, cripes in that case there's no hope for you, even I think you earn too much!

[tw]

[wigan4]

This is a slightly different question but I guess this is as good a place as any to ask.

Rather than salary in, I'm asking what it would take to maintain an enjoyable standard of living here for two people, assuming you have the apartment, etc.

I know what the Chinese live on, but I'm more asking for the western perspective--to be able to afford all the necessities and conveniences (to the extent they're available--TV, high speed, etc--go out to eat at decent places--not dives and not splurges--2 or 3 times a week, do local traveling on the weekends, that sort of thing.

I still know 'it depends' but those of you living there and doing it daily must have some generalized idea of what it would take to support two people comfortably.

Basically I'm assuming my wife and I could live here reasonably comfortably day-to-day on, say, 4000 RMB, is that a reasonable assumption? No car, no plane tickets, just day to day living and 'in China' sightseeing on weekends, that sort of thing.

[tw]

[wigan4]

Well, if she was living 'extravagantly' and the total was 2000 then it sounds like 4000 should be fine for two--or was that just her food bill?

If you renew your contract can you keep the apartment through the summer even if you're not teaching or do you need to move out?

[tw]

[wigan4]

Which definitely?

(Or is that the answer!)

[lowes13]

wigan4
If we take as given that you�re accommodation and daily living expenses are covered by the school i.e. school provides your meals, and pays the bills on your apartment then I would say your figure of 4000 RMB is good.
I travel every weekend, bus or train, and eat out several times per week at decent Chinese places and when I cost that out I�m able to confirm your figure. Bear in mind, I�m sure you do, that there are always going to be extras/unforeseen circumstances!

In the major cities such as Shang hai, Bei jing and Guang zhou you would probably need to revise your figure upward by perhaps 25%, others will advise. The 4000 figure I believe is representative of the vast majority of China based on my own actual costs.

Cheers

[tw]

[peabocardigan]

I agree that we get paid inflated wages. But while we get paid for our actual work I feel that our salary COMPENSATES us for many things we have to put up with here, such as our lack of privacy and being constantly at everyone's disposal. My colleague witnessed a campus tour the other day. The guide was telling the freshmen about the foreign teachers' building and that they should always go and talk to the foreigners in there since they are 'available' 24 hours a day!!! Does anyone else get asked to have their picture taken at least once or twice a day? Does anyone else get tired of getting yelled at (Hullooo?) at least 10 times a day or tired of getting singled out as laowai all the time? Parents pointing their fingers at you telling their children in Chinese: 'look, a foreigner'? We are here largely in our role as trained monkeys and in the business of English-language entertainment. We might not have to put up with the same hassle and actual work-place-presence-hours as our Chinese colleagues but we certainly are their monkeys 24/7 and not by choice. I personally would not want to do this for RMB1500/month.

Just to re-iterate-look at it as compensation and not salary. Kinda like rich hollywood actors who get paid $100,000 for shooting a picture and $10,000,000 for the resulting loss of privacy and hassle. Maybe there is something wrong with that kind of system, but it surely does exist.

[Roger]

I am glad for peabocardigan's clarification: yes, our incomes are a sort of compensation for a lot of pains we endure in a foreign, less-than extremely hospitable place. We are often taken advantage of. We are PR material. We are being suffered rather than being hosted - numerous anecdotal pieces of evidence to support that. We are figureheads, that's what. It reminds me of the occasional gig we can put in - get hired for a day as "the foreign President of a joint venture" (as happened to me, earning me a windfall of 1200 in just one night staying at a five-star hotel and a couple of hours of impersonating someone).

Then again, a Chinese teacher's job can just as easily be a farce. This is the homeland of all self-delusions and deceptions - people here are so inured to being misled they actually believe the fake thing is the real one! CHinese teachers don't necessarily excel by their professionalism either! They hand down antique traditions approved by the Party, and many of them hate these traditions! Just ask them...

Meanwhile, we are living off people who pay for tuition, and they pay disproportionate amounts! Some can afford to pay, but public schools do not ask parents whether they have the money to pay - they demand it!

I know both worlds encapsulated in China's society - the socialist one where you live in a danwei and everything is provided for you (as is the case at my university), and a private one - where the ricdh retire to after a week of sloughing in an urban jungle such as Guangzhou. I live in my own private premises in a gated estate, and of course I pay for all my needs.
Thus I have costs few of you have: transport to and fro my home; utilitities not subsidised, no canteen either. All these things are available to me while on campus - but I still prefer my home away from "home" on campus.
Is my lifestyle beyond the means of the lowest-paid foreign teacher? No! Even if I only got the staturoy minimum I could still survive well. I would skip visits to McDonald's and STARBUCKS, and I would shop for cheaper meats (currently I buy Aussie beef once a week for 3 to 4 dinners). I might buy a bottle of red wine fewer a month. I would perhaps buy cheaper coffee beans in Hong KOng (from an importer that gives me the wholesale price); these reductions, yes, I would possibly face, but I would by no means have to give up any of my evil habits.

[Zero Hero]

There are FTs working in China for 3,500 RMB a month. To give this some perspective, I pay my full-time live-in Filipino maid (there are some estimated 30,000 foreign domestic helpers here in HK) $3,000 HK a month, which equates to 3,300 RMB. All she has to do is cook, clean, and shop for around 3 hours a day.