Job Discussion Forums

[scoutfinch]

I recently met someone who is from Quito, and, though he now lives here in the US, his family is still there. I have heard that the social classes are quite distinct and separate in South American countries, and did this guy ever let me know it. He was quite eager to impress upon me whom I should associate with and whom I should stay away from, and also the areas I should and should not go....not really based on safety issues, but more on the people who congregated there.

And, he was also quite eager to make sure I knew that he was at the "top" of the social ladder there as well. I won't bore you with all of the "advice" he gave me, but basically, my impression was that the lighter-skinned a person was in Ecuador, the higher they were on the social ladder. He also informed me that the maid (I have an apt. with two other girls already rented and we will have a maid) was "not my friend." I did not quite know how to respond to this, as the whole concept of even having a maid is TOTALLY foreign to me. Heck, I was the maid in my house when I was growing up!! Plus, he told me that police officers, bus and taxi drivers, and waiters/waitresses were also at the "bottom."

Now...granted, he was a bit full of himself and I just took his advice with a grain of salt, but I was wondering what you all have observed and experienced with the social class structure in Latin America and how it affects people's relationships with one another. Is it really THAT distinct? I have blonde hair, light eyes, and fair skin, but I certainly do NOT expect to be at the "top" of anything in Quito. As a matter of fact, I would think I'll be quite at the mercy of and subordinate to ANY local, be they Indian, Spanish, mestizo, white, or whatever, simply because I will not be fluent in Spanish(at first), and will depend on them for directions, advice, comradarie, etc.

I'm interested to hear what you all think of this issue and what your experiences have been. And, I'd just like to know what to expect as well.

Thanks.
Liz

[moonraven]

Yep, racism is alive and well in South America--because it is actively promoted by folks like the little jewel you wrote about. In Venezuela folks like that are called "Escu�lidos", but the universal name is "oligarchs" (from the Greek, meaning "rule by the few").

My advice is to stay away from creeps like that.

[Justin Trullinger]

Hear hear! I don't know your maid. But a guy who wants to tell you how to get by in Ecuador by racial stereotyping is NOT your friend.

Racism is, of course, alive and well down here. And as you sound pretty "white," and will speak with a foreign accent, people will assume that you are loaded. We call it the gringo tax, and it's everywhere. The best way around it is to find a local. I always use the same internet cafe, and do all my local shopping in the same few shops, where they know me. It�s always more likely that people who see you every day will see you as a person, rather than a walking wallet.

People here will give you all kinds of advice about what kind (color) people act in what way. Try to ignore them.

Regards,
Justin

[rafomania]

Like anywhere in the world you can encounter racism in Latin America. Racism against blacks, whites, yellows, browns. ha.

My family who are Colombian grew up in the Mountains of Tolima on a farm. Not a well off family. Not white either. Yet my Uncle has a "chica" as they are called in Colombia in his Bogota home. Shes part of the family. They are more common place in Latin America perhaps.
This guy you encountered was probably thinking that he was being helpful by giving advice even if it was racist.

Even norte americanos-is that what you are my dear?- like Moonraven can be racist toward Gringos.
It's everywhere but you don't have to like it or take part in it.

[moonraven]

Another social scientist! I would be willing to bet that you had never heard of the term gini coefficient until you just read this post.

Latin America is the region of the world with the highest index of racism as well as the highest index of inequality in distribution of wealth. Clearly, those two realities are related.

I am not racist towards gringos, but am sure as h*ell disgusted by most of their behavior. The term "ugly american" wasn't invented by pixies and fairies to entertain us. As an ethnic stereotype, it comes closest to being bang on than any others.

The term "chica" is replaced by "muchacha" here in Mexico. It's a racist term, as some of those "girls" are in their 70s.

No racists are EVER helpful. A 80-something year old guy in Mississippi was just given 60 years for being the mastermind of the murder of 3 civil rights volunteers in the 60s. A little late--he's almost out of here.

[MixtecaMike]

If this is part of Latin culture then what right do sorry leftisit gringas have to demand they change it? What's next, an invasion by the Sociology Major Army to liberate the muchachas?

Provide USEFUL education and these pobre muchachas will lift their own living standards, run around stirring up trouble and they will end up out of work.

[moonraven]

YOU were given the opportunity to provide useful education to just that population group, and you did nothing but complain about your job the whole time you were there.

Where did I recommend stirring up trouble? I recommended avoiding racists!!!!

[scoutfinch]

Yes, rafomania, I am North American. I agree that racism exists in all cultures, too. Trust me, I am no stranger to the concept. Southern girl - born and raised.

Funny, when I met him, the other people at the dinner party and I were discussing how different it might be to teach To Kill A Mockingbird to South American students (versus teaching it here in the South). He made some comment like, "You know - that's one thing I just didn't understand at all when I got here. This whole black/white tension racist thing you all have here in the South. I just don't get it!" I almost choked on my food...

[MixtecaMike]

[samizinha]

I lived in Brazil a number of years ago, and classicism was alive and well there too.
I lived with three host families during my year there. One of the big social distinctions drawn was between the family and the maid. To their faces a maid would be called a 'secretary' but behind their backs it was a different story. Maids would eat the left over food when the family was finished, use different bathrooms, sleep in bare and far off rooms, and would rarely engage in conversation that wasn�t based on domestic duties. One family I lived with actually rang a bell when they wanted the maid to come. Other families that I visited, however, considered their maids to be family and were upset by people who ignored them or treated them poorly.
I, like the case in Ecuador, had friends (especially school friends) that would tell me who I should hang out with and who I should avoid. They would avoid certain night clubs when everybody in the city was getting paid and could afford to go. They would go to the VIP sections and avoid dancing with the �commoners�. Everything was ranked. My school, country clubs, the size of one's beach house...
I dated a police officer and didn't tell my host family about his occupation (I'm shocked that they didn't ask).
I doubt that everybody would agree with this advice, it would differ in each country and with each person, but when I got fed up with these attitudes I let people know. I let my friends know that I wouldn't listen to their racist jokes. I talked to maids and street vendors and anybody else who wanted to talk. I danced with other friends on normal dance floors and had a blast. Maybe I was imposing my foreign opinions on them and perhaps that wasn't my place. My suggestions could ultimately have been patronizing because of my own class background and advantages in the country; but I did what I felt was right and most of my classicist friends told me that they respected me for it. They definitely understood what would be appropriate in my own country.
So now I might go and email my old host family to tell them about that officer...

[Aramas]

[samizinha]

Ha ha, please forgive me, I'm a sleep deprived student.

[ElNota]

[moonraven]

Moonraven has given up trying to educate racists.

[ElNota]

Seek first to understand Moonie... racism is a learned behavior.