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| Is ET improving the EFL Industry in Istanbul? |
| yes |
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36% |
[ 4 ] |
| no |
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63% |
[ 7 ] |
| Won`t vote because they may sack/not employ me |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
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| Total Votes : 11 |
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31
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 1797
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 Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| Entrailicus wrote: |
I used 'will' instead of 'be going to' to indicate that I had just made the decision at that point in time, and that it wasn't something that I had previously planned.
Jesus H Christ I thought I had been in TEFL too long.
As the late Sir Alec Guinness once commented, upon returning to theatre acting after a spell appearing in movies; 'It's so nice to be returning to the profession after spending too long in the industry.' I feel there is a great deal of difference between a profession and an industry, and as this quote indicates, there can be a big difference in ones perception of the question by wording your post in this particular way.
Would it be fair to say that you consider yourself a professional in a lamentable industry that has apalling pay and conditions and who employ non-professionals on the same pay and conditions on a regular basis?
With regard to voting, I don't feel that I shall, as I consider myself to be part of the profession. Nevertheless, I understand, lamentably, where you're coming from. |
But you are in the industry so you could vote. |
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31
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 1797
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| Faustino wrote: |
| I do work at a private uni and a language school. Can't say it's good to be back. There must be better things to talk about on this forum; I can't believe Breadmoney/handshandy is still going on about ET. |
That was quick. |
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justme
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 1944
Location: Istanbul
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:15 am Post subject: |
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So you, too, think trouser snakes are a good idea!
I, for one, am pretty sure I've never told a lie on this forum, for what it's worth... |
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31
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 1797
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| I have mastered the (single?) quote function. I just don`t know how to quote sections of a post and then reply to each section. |
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31
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 1797
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:20 am Post subject: |
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[
As the author of this thread, you could lead the way with the first vote. I always do this with my 'Turkey... when?' threads.[/quote]
Voting for yourself? I think voting for yourself is a bit crass. |
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justme
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 1944
Location: Istanbul
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:22 am Post subject: |
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I see I'm the only one who voted 'yes'.
But I'm making the same division between 'industry' and 'profession' as whynotme and Entrailicus. They're probably good for the industry from a capitalistic perspective and they're setting standards in the market for commercial language school enterprises. As for the profession, I don't want to get into that again, but short answer is 'not good'....
Ban the Backpackers!  |
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31
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 1797
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:34 am Post subject: |
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[quote="justme"]I see I'm the only one who voted 'yes'.
HOW COULD YOU?
Ban the backpackers but say they are improving EFL?
Good for the industry? Their lack of standards brings the whole industry down. Setting standards, not setting standards is the truth.
HAVE THE DECENCY TO THINK ABOUT YOUR VOTE AND TAKE IT BACK |
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31
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 1797
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| Entrailicus wrote: |
| Why create a poll if you're so unwilling to accept the opinions of others? |
To rip the MOD EDIT out of ET |
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justme
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 1944
Location: Istanbul
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
HOW COULD YOU?
Ban the backpackers but say they are improving EFL?
Good for the industry? Their lack of standards brings the whole industry down. Setting standards, not setting standards is the truth.
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Hmmm. I didn't think what I said was contradictory at all. The language school industry here is strong and getting stronger with the type of business practices ET uses. If, as you claim, they don't pay for holidays, hire underqualified teachers to overwork them for a pittance, encourage more of these backpackers to come here and 'teach,' find ways to jack people out of their travel bonuses, etc., then they've found a way to do good business and make money by taking as much from their workers as they can, giving as little in return as they can, thus making a tidy profit. Capitalism sucks for workers, but it's good for these types of businesses. ET is setting a standard in that most backpackers who come here can expect the same from any language school. Since it's easy to get a job there and one has little responsibility while working there, they insure a steady flow of slappers who will continue to work under these conditions, and they can steadily lower the bar of teacher and student expectations, making it easier for them and other language schools to earn even more money.
The language schools employ Turks as staff, admin, etc., who have steady work and contribute to the economy. The younger people who have admin jobs can leave with a good resume and (often) a decent level of English which makes them better qualified for better jobs.
As for what this does to the profession, I remember writing one or two really long posts several months ago about what these kinds of standards and business practices are doing to the profession. I searched for it, but I think it was in that ET thread that got deleted. The short of it was that I wholeheartedly agree with you that schools like this are making things difficult (to say the least) for serious teachers, and both teachers and students are getting ripped off in so many ways.
| Quote: |
| HAVE THE DECENCY TO THINK ABOUT YOUR VOTE AND TAKE IT BACK |
Thought about it. Won't do it. Nothing personal. |
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corall
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 270
Location: istanbul, turkey
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:17 am Post subject: |
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once again i find myself in agreement with justme. definitely ban the backpackers (although i am sure that molly will be the first to say that et doesn't hire backpackers anymore)
i didn't realize that there was only one possible "right" answer in this opinion poll... |
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31
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 1797
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:25 am Post subject: |
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[quote="corall" definitely ban the backpackers
But as ET gobbles up ''schools'' and introduces hourly pay etc. only backpackers will accept these conditions.
How do you propose to ban backpackers?
If you could ban them then ET would have to up their pay and offer proper conditions or close down.
Anymore? Has ET admitted openly to employing backpackers? I know dmb almost admitted yesterday that when he was briefly a DOS at ET he was forced to employ backpackers. |
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corall
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 270
Location: istanbul, turkey
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:02 am Post subject: |
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all i know is that backpackers are bad for the profession, but et is good for the industry - they are a business that grows more and more every year. we may not like what they do to grow (bad conditions, hire backpackers, etc), but they do it anyways. i just choose not to work there.
unfortunately backpackers are a part of the industry, but as more and more dos's realize how bad the quality of the work is, the less back packers they hire. that would be nice if et could (or maybe it tries to now, i don't know) follow that practice for a start. setting hiring standards and sticking to them would be good as well (ie degree and celta), and getting all employees work visas (if they can't get a work visa then they must not be qualified)
i don't know about using dmb as your example. he hated that company the whole time he was there, so of course they hired backpackers all the time (which i am sure they did then). also it was a long time ago he was a dos there and maybe things have changed. perhaps you should get info from the dos that is there now |
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calsimsek
Joined: 15 Jul 2004
Posts: 775
Location: Ist Turkey
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:18 am Post subject: |
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31 when all this started you were the one telling us how great E.T was.
We talked about the Mc School system and about the pay rate and how unfair it was and how other schools were being lead by E.T.
All this has been covered to death. I don't agree with Molly, but I don't blame her for the company regulations she has to go by. Nothing we say here will change that, perhapes I'm getting soft but if we'er talking industry and sector effects, E.T might help.
Thoses that don't have the time or money will go to E.T and thoses that want somthing more personal will find and pay, those that can provide a more personal approach. |
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31
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 1797
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:45 am Post subject: |
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''more and more dos's realize how bad the quality of the work is, the less back packers they hire''
No, more and more are being hired here as ET gobbles more of the market.
DOSes know but have no power to change anything. |
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31
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 1797
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:01 am Post subject: |
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What is so incredulous about Interlang (ET) advertising openly for teachers without a degree or CELTA and offering only hourly pay and then getting mainly backpackers?
Professionals such as yourself aren`t going to work there. When/if you go to the IATEFL conference would you want to walk around for 3 days with English Time emblazoned on your chest? It is going to be (using ''be going to'' to imply that it is a future plan) embarassing enough to have Dogus there. |
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