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kev7161 · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 5880 Location: Suzhou, China

Today is my last day at Hua Mei School in Hangzhou. I'll certainly miss some teacher friends I've made as well as some of my students, but I'm eager to move on. I've given everyone my email address and future phone number. If they want to keep in touch, they will.

Today, a teacher that shares the office with me had her family in and she wanted me to talk to her son and his cousin. Both of these boys have just finished Junior 3 middle school and will move on to Senior 1 level next fall. Both of these boys attend public schools up in . . . ??? (someplace north - - Shandong sounds right) These boys talked circles around a majority of my students. They answered my questions quickly and accurately and I understood pretty much everything they said. What a joy it would be to have students like this in class!

We had a short-lived thread awhile back on "Public vs Private" schools. We don't seem to hear much from those that actually teach in public schools. We DO hear from us private school teachers and language mill teachers who have a lot of headaches from our jobs. I'd love to hear from some public school teachers. Were these two boys the rule or the exception?

tw · Joined: 04 Jun 2005 Posts: 3898

kev7161 · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 5880 Location: Suzhou, China

I think this teacher should be very proud of her son and his cousin. If she was showcasing them, good for her. This teacher is not only a colleague, but also a friend, so I don't feel she was using me to "test" the kids. Her sister, who also spoke very good English said that my friend talks about me all the time when she calls home. She said many flattering things to me - - hey, after the year I've had, I'll take it. But I sincerely believe that my teacher/friend just wanted to introduce her family to her foreign colleague; perhaps I'm the first foreigner she's ever worked with. Don't be so cynical all the time "TW" - - that's my job around here.

tw · Joined: 04 Jun 2005 Posts: 3898

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

This is NOT a question of private schools versus public ones!

Rather you were ealing with two exceptional students - ask to meet their peers, and you will see!

If my suggestion is wrong then another possibllity obtains: it's an exceptional school or an exceptional class full of dedicated learners under a dedicated teacher.

Most Chinese teachers are no better at English than the majority of their students that get gang-pressed into English-studying servictude by their parents.

In my opinion, the longer they get exposed to their teaching the dumber they get!

kev7161 · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 5880 Location: Suzhou, China

Again, where's all this cynicism coming from? I thought I was a major cynic, but come on! I'm not going to pretend to know these boys. I only talked with them for about 30 minutes. Obviously I can't "meet their peers", I'm sure you were saying that rhetorically, Roger. Yes, you're correct - - they may share classrooms with a whole group of dim bulbs. Regardless, these two exceled (esp. at their age) at English compared to the groups I had the pleasure of dealing with this year. All I'm saying is there are bright, English-speaking students out there (by the way, both of these guys liked basketball, computer games, and ping-pong . . . so "normal" in every other way) - - I wish I would have had more of them under my tutelage. I'm just wondering if there are other FTs out there with some public school experience that can put to rest the myths of "public vs. private".

carken · Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 6:47 pm Post subject:

I taught public school for two years in Hangzhou, Kevin, at No. 14 Middle School, which is a key school. In the area of English proficiency, my students ran the gamut, from exceptional to minimal, but probably more were on the upper end of the pole. These were Sr. 1 students.

cimarch · Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 358 Location: Dalian

Another question, do they attend a private school on the weekends?

I teach in two primary schools and a private school and some of the primary school students are also in my private classes. In general they are better than their peers in the public school, sometimes MUCH better, although some obviously are in for remedial classes. Some in the public school are as good or better than the ones who come to the private but I've found that they tend to go to other private schools as well.

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

kev,
no need to sound off so bitterly! I wasn't in the least being cynical.
You said it yourself - these fellows had an English-teaching parent. DOn't you see that they have a headstart over their classmates?

All the parents I see normally are "dim lights" in terms of English; they are no potential English practising partners.
If that teacher talks to her son in English in their spare time then obviously he gets ideal exposure to the lingo.

As for the "bright lights", they can be found just about anywhere even in China. For example, I had a 17-year old as a private student many years ago; he thought he wasn't learning ANYTHING (no hyperbole!) at middle school but his parents wanted him to go to Australia for higher education.

His parents didn't know English at all... the guy was more proficient than any of his middle-school teachers. After half a year we tried to enroll him in Australia; his English was superb but his age prevented him from being admitted... We thought it was a tragedy... because the boy told me he hated attending school in China together with "all those idiots..." (his peers!).
A true nonconformist if ever there was one!
There was a happy ending though: the British, hitherto known to be rather stand-offish, accepted him at once! He could go to England and sit his 'A' exams there (of course not in the same year).

carken · Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 1:39 pm Post subject:

I just remembered a 14 year old Chinese student I met while bicycling to Moon Hill near Yangshou. She reined in with us and began chatting, her English better than some English teachers I knew. She became our "guide" for the day, and took us to visit her poor home and village as we took a back trip entrance to Yangshou. She was the product of a very poor public school in China, but she had chosen to learn English! She told us that she didn't think she was poor because there were others in her school who were poorer.

Brian Caulfield · Joined: 14 Sep 2004 Posts: 1247 Location: China

Teaching middle school , high school and university students in Korea , Taiwan and now here in China . I find little difference between middle school and university students . In Korea they surveyed the kids in middle school and found out that English was their favorite subject they surveyed the kids in high school and found out that English was their most hated subject . So they go from love to hate in five years . After working in high schools in Wuxi and Taiyuan I found the teachers were one page ahead of their students in the text book . If the text is too difficult for the teachers how can the students understand ? The approach to teaching is the same everywhere I have worked . They use the translation approach, so the students never hear English from their Chinese teachers. The real problem I see is that classes are too large here and there is too much diversity of abilities in one class. The classes and schools are hierarchical with the top students in all subjects being in number one class and worst in number 15. This ranking has nothing to do with English ablilities . I have found my best students in lower ranking classes . If they ran their English classes the same way with the best students of English in one class and the worst in another class then the teacher could teach them . They could hit the middle of the class with their lessons .