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Sherri
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 749
Location: The Big Island, Hawaii
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 Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 1:01 am Post subject: quality of (JET) ALTs declines |
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Did anyone else see this article in the Daily Yomiuri this morning (on the front page)? I pasted it below if you care to read it. Even though I am not an ALT I found some of the "reasons" for the decline in ability rather unfair. For example it says that one reason is that more and more ALTs "have demonstrated a lack of teaching skills". I was under the impression that it is the hiring policy of JET not to look specifically for teaching experience? Have I got this wrong?
To the people closer to the JET program, any opinions?
http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/newse/20030629wo31.htm
Overall quality of ALTs declines despite increased demand
Yomiuri Shimbun
The quality of assistant language teachers (ALT) introduced by the Japan Exchange and Teaching (JET) Program to municipalities for their public primary, middle and high schools has declined, despite a growing demand for such teachers, according to sources close to JET.
A lack of interest in the JET program as a means of finding jobs among English-speaking countries, including the United States, has resulted in a low number of applications for the job, a factor believed to be behind the falling quality of ALTs.
The Foreign Ministry, Public Management Ministry and Education, Science and Technology Ministry have begun looking into establishing a system that reflects ALTs' performances in their salaries, the sources said Saturday.
Together with the three ministries, the JET program began in 1987 formulating plans for ALTs, employing them and conducting training sessions for them.
JET also invites foreign nationals for exchange programs with municipalities, but 90 percent of the the foreign nationals it introduces are ALTs. In the last fiscal year, about 5,700 ALTs from 20 countries were hired.
Recruitment of ALTs is conducted through Japanese consulates in the United States, Britain, Canada and other English-speaking countries.
ALTs are hired on a one-year contract, which can be extended for up to three years. Ninety percent of ALTs are new college graduates, the sources said.
Recently, more and more ALTs have demonstrated a lack of teaching skills, the sources said.
In a prefecture in the Kanto region, one ALT was so nervous teaching classes with 40 students, a larger class size than generally found in the United States and Europe, that he could not speak.
Another teacher had a fight with a Japanese teacher concerning how to deal with students who dozed off during class.
The education ministry has been informed that some ALTs do not discuss teaching methods with Japanese teachers and others do not talk to children even in class.
Some ALTs have quit midway through the year, citing employment at home or enrollment in graduate school.
The number of ALTs who quit before the year was up, for various reasons, such as homesickness and accidents, has increased annually, accounting for 2 percent of those employed by JET.
Last year, 151 ALTs resigned before their contracts ended.
The education ministry believes that low number of people applying for the job is behind the declining quality of ALTs.
According to the Foreign Ministry, over the last five years, the application-to-job ratio has remained around the two-to-one level in the United States.
In 1995, there were more than four applicants for every ALT job in Britain and Canada, but the application-to-job ratio there has also dropped to the two-to-one level.
Prefectural education board members said that the application ratio was officially set at two-to-one, but that in reality, all applicants were reportedly hired, excluding those who were unqualified and those who turned down the job.
"Because they know they'll be hired if they apply for the job, they don't have any awareness of being selected for the job," the members said.
However, ALTs introduced by JET have gained acceptance in the country.
In 1990, there were just over 2,100 ALTs, but the number has held at more than 5,000 every year since 1998.
Copyright 2003 The Yomiuri Shimbun |
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guest of Japan
Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 1601
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 1:27 am Post subject: |
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"Another JET had a fight with a Japanese teacher concerning students who dozed off in class."
This sentence is bashing JETs but it doesn't actually say if the JET was in the wrong. I believe it takes two people to have a fight. |
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Mike L.
Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 519
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 1:41 am Post subject: |
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I wouldn't say the quality of many Japanese English teachers is stellar either.
What about the "qualifed" English teachers in this country who don't actually speak the language they are suposedly teaching?
The statements from Monbusho, complaining about quality, are interesting considering, from my experience, that JET doesn't actively recruit qualifed English teachers. Some of us do end up in the program though.
Monbusho is probably looking for excuses as to why their shoddy educational reforms are not producing the results they were looking for.
Many of the local BOEs wouldn't know what to do with a quailifed English teacher if they got one. Mine didn't. Many BOEs are using ALTs, as international window dressing, only because their sallaries are subsidized by the national government. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 2:22 am Post subject: |
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Sherri,
Interesting article. I'm a skeptic about numbers, and I try teaching students to analyze sources of information and such, so I took a lot of that article with a great deal of salt, and I hope other readers will do the same.
As an example, just who were these "sources close to JET" that provided all of this info? Why not JET officials themselves? Hmm.
You are dead on about the issue of declining teacher quality and the fact that JET advertises for ALTs with absolutely no teaching experience necessary. Sounds like a Catch-22, doesn't it? I also had to smile at the few examples of "lack of teaching skills". Only two examples cited, and only one of them really dealt with anything directly related to teaching itself. I guess those sources aren't all that informed. Sounds to me like a perturbed JET ALT.
As for the number of ALTs who quit, and those numbers being up, I have to question the information. Or, should I say the lack of it. What does "up" mean? Two more teachers than last year? 20? 100?
I love this statement...
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| The education ministry believes that low number of people applying for the job is behind the declining quality of ALTs. |
Since JET hires people without requiring teacher qualifications, and since "ninety percent of ALTs are new college graduates" (again, cited not by JET itself but by our mysterious "sources"), is it any wonder that so few have teaching skills? Not to me. Why complain about it? Also, I know that for the most part ALTs are not deeply involved in lesson planning or presenting lessons anyway. Those tasks are more often left up to the JTE. The ALT's job is more of a cultural ambassador, with some meager assistance in pronunciation and such in the classroom. So, what do you want for nothing?
If the article's sources were correct, we now have some numbers that prospective JET ALTs can use to judge their chances of landing a job. Looks like it's pretty much 50/50, although I seriously doubt those are true numbers. Just my opinion.
Our "deep throat" sources also made this interesting comment...
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| The Foreign Ministry, Public Management Ministry and Education, Science and Technology Ministry have begun looking into establishing a system that reflects ALTs' performances in their salaries |
...and if it's true, I for one am glad because from all that I know about JET ALTs, they certainly don't rate the salaries they make. Flame me if you like, people, but most JET ALTs have 2-3 classes a day, and the rest of the time they spend in the school doing very little. However, they get paid 50,000 yen/month more than an eikaiwa teacher who has twice as many classes and who often has to create the lessons himself and present the whole thing. JET ALTs have more official time off, too, and more opportunities to work evenings with private tutoring if they so desire, but not eikaiwa teachers. Why is it so important to the Japanese government that they should pay them so much more to do so little? Before anyone chooses to flame me with their individual experiences of working hard as a JET ALT, consider that a handful (at most) of examples will not cut it as a rebuttal. |
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TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 1:26 pm Post subject: Beware of falling JETs |
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As a former JET, I found the article laughable. When I attended the orientation in Tokyo the first week I was there, I was one of the few qualified TESOL teachers there. I asked many of the others about their qualifications and usually received the same answer - I'm a college/university graduate.
JET, in all the literature, never specified anything about qualifications beyond a BA/BSc. The people who interviewed me in my home city weren't even aware of what my qualification was for or how long the program is.
Once I had made it into the schools, I realized that few of my Japanese coworkers knew anything about TESOL, knew nothing about the scope of Bachelor of Education degrees in Canada, my home country, and few had ever heard the Japanese word for pedagogy.
What the heck did Mombusho expect?! The program has hired young, energetic grads to be a foreign presence in the classroom, and that's just how it's been for the last 10 years. I've attended other ALTs classes to see what they were up too, and was consistently disappointed. You have to learn how to teach. There are effective methods of doing things, and though we've all been students, we don't necessarily know what it takes to present a lesson and evaluate the students' performance.
And I agree with Mike. I've seen so many people in Japanese classrooms who don't have a clue about how to get kids to perform. The Japanese education system is a shambles. |
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Sherri
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 749
Location: The Big Island, Hawaii
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| My thanks to everyone who has posted so far. Your comments fit my own impression. I just found out that this article also appeared in the Japanese edition of the Yomiuri (today, Sunday June 29), again on the front page. So the number of people who see it will be much greater than I had orginally thought. I can't believe that the Yomiuri has published such a badly researched article and put it on the front page--is there some hidden agenda there? Even though I have nothing to do with the JET scheme or ALTs the whole thing makes me so angry! I will have to write to the Yomiuri directly, though I am not sure what good it will do. |
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lajzar
Joined: 09 Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Location: Saitama-ken, Japan
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| This article is also being discussed on Bigdaikon. Someoene there mentioned that the Japanese version of teh article states that 300 ALTs are being taken off the ALT lists, and being employed as regular teachers with the same responsibilities as the Japanese teachers. Draw your own conclusions. I don't know enough Japanese to check if that is true or not. |
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G Cthulhu
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Way, way off course.
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
...and if it's true, I for one am glad because from all that I know about JET ALTs, they certainly don't rate the salaries they make.
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You, of course, being extensively qualified and experienced to comment, eh? ;)
Glenski, I've noticed that you take every opportunity to slam the JET Programme. Why is that? Jealous? How many JETs do you actually know? Certainly, given that you live in only one place in Japan, not that many and clearly not a representative number.
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Flame me if you like, people, but most JET ALTs have 2-3 classes a day, and the rest of the time they spend in the school doing very little.
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Even if that were true, so what? The average for Japanese staff is three lessons a day too. Again, so what? As for "doing very little else", sorry, but that varies as wildly as the number of JETs is large - some do very little and some do a helluva lot.
JETs do very little? So, tell me, whose fault is that? The employer for failing to make better use of them or the employee for failing to be able to get the employer to make better use of them? Take a moment to think it through, glenski...
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However, they get paid 50,000 yen/month more than an eikaiwa teacher who has twice as many classes and who often has to create the lessons himself and present the whole thing.
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Again, even on the occasions when true, so what?!
Many eikaiwa teachers can also work overtime, earning far more than any JET does, work for longer than three years (thereby making far more (and amortising their expenses over a longer period)).
And what does solo presentation have to do with it? If you think that an otherwise unqualified eikaiwa teacher fresh off the boat presenting lessons by themselves is something to parade with pride then I suggest you re-assess your values when it comes to providing good lessons.
You're levelling a lot of 'accusations', but none of them carry any real weight. All they really display is a complete lack of knowledge and considerable bias about the matter.
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JET ALTs have more official time off, too, and more opportunities to work evenings with private tutoring if they so desire, but not eikaiwa teachers.
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Okay, this one is just plain false. The nenji offered on the model contract from CLAIR is 12 days a year. JETs also get statutory holidays off. Again, so what? All public employees get that as minimum. Are you actually saying it's a bad thing, or are you just somehow jealous of people being offered a better contract than you might have?! Get over it! That's just the way life is.
Also, JETs are expressly *forbidden* to work outside jobs without special permission. It seems to be the standard fantasy that 'all JETs work second jobs'. Sorry, but if you look at where the majority of JETs are placed it's clear that the CLAIR data saying the majority of JETs *don't* work extra jobs puts the lie to that falsehood.
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Why is it so important to the Japanese government that they should pay them so much more to do so little?
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50,000 yen a month more is 'so much'? So little work? Again, you have no direct experience and are simply repeating the popular line.
Consider where the majority of JETs work: rural and semi-rural settings.
The fact of life is, and while they continue to be paid the same as they've always been paid (that is, their salaries continue to decline due to inflation), they will only get people to consider the positions if they make them more attractive.
As the original article stated, JET is having trouble recruiting in some countries. Why is that? Could it be because the exchange rate and the movements in currency and costs of living no longer make JEt an attractive offer?
You have a chip on your shoulder over JET and can't see past it, Glenski.
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Before anyone chooses to flame me with their individual experiences of working hard as a JET ALT, consider that a handful (at most) of examples will not cut it as a rebuttal.
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Then you are being disingenous and intellectually dishonest.
*You* provide *no* examples. And yet you stand there and say that you won't accept personal experience as a rebuttal to your own unsupported statements? On the basis you implicitly demand the only people that could possibly reply are those with the numbes from CLAIR or MEXT, and you and I both know how likely they are to be reading this.
So, glenski, would you like to explain why *your* unsourced and otherwise undocumented statements are to be taken as gospel and the statements from those with direct experience aren't?
You're normally a well balanced poster here, Glenski, but, I'm afraid, in this matter you simply haven't got a clue about JET and your posts show it. |
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Mosley
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 158
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 2:29 am Post subject: Glenski... |
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| ... I've read many of your posts and have found many of them to be sound and full of good advice. This is the first time I've ever noticed anger or bitterness coming from you. I don't disagree totally w/your post. There ARE JETs out there who simply should not be on the programme. Spoiled, lazy, ungrateful party animals who don't give a rat's patooey about ESL. These types ARE overpaid and they tend to see time at their schools as rude interruptions of their all-expense paid 1-3 yr. tour of East Asia. I have to quibble, though, w/ your wide brush. There ARE dedicated JET ALTs/CIRs out there who are a credit to the programme. In all modesty(but honesty) I was one of the latter ones(JET '96-'99). A few comments relating to the topic: First, I'm very surprised by the article's assertion that it's difficult to attract applicants. In Canada, at least, membership in the programme is considered highly desirable, especially by 20- something university grads. JET takes in 1000 newbies/yr. and as far as I know, several thousand applicants are turned down. I know personally of 3 people in my hometown who went to JET interviews last year and all were rejected! Certainly, there are two things about recruitment that should be changed, IMHO.1. Scrap the age limit. Get experienced, mature individuals in the classroom instead of some of these whiny brats. Who cares if the gaijin is 50? As long as he does the job and adapts to a Japanese work environment, age shouldn't matter a bit. 2. Adopt varying pay scales for JETs. An experienced and qualified ESL/EFL teacher should be paid higher than a 22-yr. old who's just graduated w/ a degree in theology or microbiology. I lied- here's one more 3. Scrap the 3-yr. limit. Yeah I know it's an exchange programme... yada, yada,... but if a JET is happy to stay longer and the school/office is happy w/him, why shouldn't he be allowed to stay 4, 5, 15 yrs.? My 2 cents.... |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 2:52 am Post subject: |
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I knew this was going to start something! I hope to keep this discussion as professional as possible.
My comments about the JET program are not always negative. Prove that they are. In fact, I have tried to present it in as fair a way as possible over the years. I often tout the virtues, such as getting your foot in the door with zero experience, having your airfare paid for, getting a higher salary than eikaiwa teachers, and having a multitude of experiences (not just teaching). Equally so, it has its negatives, such as not true teaching experience, putting people in rural settings (scary if you don't know any Japanese and if this is your first experience in a foreign land), the lengthy application process (not to mention the fact that applicants will have to pay for their own transportation & lodging to attend the interview, which may be quite a distance from their hometown), and the fact that they hire people with any degree instead of something related to teaching (even if teaching grammar is not a full-scale obligation, they are placed in classes that expect it to be used and explained properly).
The point I was trying to make was that the news article was misleading. Japanese teachers where I work (high school) have 2-5 classes a day, and they do so much more than a JET ALT. I wasn't even beginning to try comparing them, so why did you? My main point here was that they make significantly more money than a conversation school teacher (and nearly the same as a JTE in his/her first year), yet they don't have nearly the same responsibilities. That's all. I don't think you can refute that. And, in my book 50,000 yen/month (or 600,000 yen per YEAR) is certainly "so much" more. How can you argue that it is not? (I am not concerned with overtime from eikaiwa jobs; I am merely comparing baseline salaries.)
And, yes, I realize that many JET ALTs work in rural settings.
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| The fact of life is, and while they continue to be paid the same as they've always been paid (that is, their salaries continue to decline due to inflation), they will only get people to consider the positions if they make them more attractive. |
I agree with this line of thinking. But, it is the amount itself, compared to what other types of jobs get that concerns me. I don't claim that eikaiwa teachers are godsends or the be-all-know-all in the teaching world. I'm not that naive. But the fact that many DO plan lessons and work until 9pm and have to work overtime if they want to meet JET ALT wages is just a little disconcerting to me. That's all. I'm not losing sleep over it.
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| As the original article stated, JET is having trouble recruiting in some countries. Why is that? Could it be because the exchange rate and the movements in currency and costs of living no longer make JEt an attractive offer? |
The exchange rate fluctuates daily, as you know, and in the past decade or more, it has waffled between 130 and 115. I find it hard to believe that you could use this as a point of contention. Cost of living? Maybe. The article certainly didn't make any attempt to explain, and that's one of my reasons for complaining about it. I'd love to see Sherri's letter to the editor if she writes one.
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Before anyone chooses to flame me with their individual experiences of working hard as a JET ALT, consider that a handful (at most) of examples will not cut it as a rebuttal.
Then you are being disingenous and intellectually dishonest.
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Why is that so? All I'm saying is that if someone offers only an exception or two to rebut my statements, how much ground is that to stand on? I'm not saying personal experience is unjustified; I'm saying only that a single example is weak support. CLAIR officials are welcome to read this and reply (however unlikely that may be, I agree), but I'm sure there are many others out there with lots more experience than me with JET experiences. I just don't see the strength of an exception or two.
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| unsourced and otherwise undocumented statements |
Now how does it feel to read that article with a "source close to JET"? 
Exactly what statement do I need to source?
JET ALTs get paid more than most eikaiwa teachers. You can read any job web site and compare to the JET program web site.
JET ALTs work schedule is difficult to document, but it is widely known that they don't teach as many classes or have the overall work load that teachers in other institutions do. (I'll gladly provide my weekly calendar if you want to see it as proof. And, my calendar from my language school days.)
JET ALTs don't work past 4pm, so as I wrote, they have more opportunity to slip in other kinds of work, compared to eikaiwa and high school teachers. I never said they did that kind of thing, just that it was more available to them.
JET ALTs have more time off. I based this on the fact that in my high school, we have weeks and weeks off for summer vacation, winter vacation, spring break, Golden Week, school trips, sports events (daytime), and others. My language school didn't offer nearly this amount of time, and most don't. Language schools are not public institutions, as you wrote.
As I wrote in the beginning, here and on my other post, I knew my comments were going to attract attention. So be it. I stand by my opinions, and if you want to argue constructively with numbers, let's do it. My main contention was not to put JET in a bad light. It was to show how ridiculous the Yomiuri article was.
By the way, Cthulhu, since you wrote...
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| You, of course, being extensively qualified and experienced to comment, eh? |
...please tell us your qualifications to make your comments. I have worked in Japan 5 years, as a language school teacher, a private lesson tutor, and a high school teacher (not ALT), and I have made a few (admittedly) contacts with JET ALTs directly. I have also read a lot about JET experiences, not just from www.bigdaikon.com either. I hope that wasn't your sole source of information. I never tried to portray myself as an expert on JET. Are you one? |
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Mosley
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 158
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 3:24 am Post subject: Basically accurate, but.... |
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| Glenski: I find little to disagree with in your last post. The only thing I have to contend is that there IS a SOMEWHAT higher number of dedicated JETs out there than you believe. These ones put energy into lesson planning(if their team teacher lets them!), bone up on grammar and ESL methodology, stay late at school even if they don't have anything to do(how Japanese, eh?!) and even come in the odd Saturday for no extra pay. I'm not suggesting that this the norm-far from it-but there ARE some of those JET types out there. Part of the problem of the too- many JETS who aren't up to snuff is cultural, IMHO: Japanese supervisors are far too reluctant to kick some @$$es when they need to be kicked. At the very least, I think many JETs who apply for renewal should be DENIED! If this was done, word would get around very quickly that unproductive JETs would be on a plane after one year. |
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Celeste
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 814
Location: Fukuoka City, Japan
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 3:42 am Post subject: |
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I have to agree with Tokyo Liz here. I am an experienced EFL teacher, and I have a TEFL certificate. When I interviewed for the JET programme, the biggest concern the intewviewers seemed to have was that I was over qualified for the JET programme. They were concerned that I wouldn't feel fulfilled just being used as a human tape recorder. I told them that while I was aware that this could happen, that I wascommitted to going to Japan, and if I found my classes unfulfilling, that I would try to start an English conversation club at my school to make me feel like I was making a difference. Obviously my answers satisfied them, because I got the job.
Fast Forward to the end of my first year-
I have never been used as a human tape recorder. I am based out of an Education Centre where I give seminars for teachers. When I am not giving seminars I am teaching at elementary schools. During the school breaks, I do get a bit too much free time- for me this is not a problem. I get 20 days of paid leave per year plus national holidays. No one around my workplace seems to begrudge me this.
So I think that the article in the Yomiuri is a load of bull. I think that the ministry is not communicating its directives very well. Districts are trying to use ALTs to TEACH. The embassies and consulates are hiring ALTs to be CULTURAL AMBASSADORS. Different skills set required. I don't think that htere are fewer qualified applicants too choose from, just that "real teachers" are put off by the hiring adverts that state NO TEACHING EXPERIENCE REQUIRED.
Also, if they wanted the ALTs to do a better job, then shouldn't they train them? One 3 hour seminar in Tokyo on team teaching and lesson planning was all the teacher training I was offered when I arrived. After that, we had a mid-year seminar in November that was 2 days of workshops given by our second and third year ALT "peers". Some did well;others....not so well. Finally, I got a full day of peer-taught seminars at the re-contracting conference in Kobe in May. Most of these were very well put together. If I have time next year, I will volunteer to teach at some of these conferences.
I would propose that the JET programme spend a little less money on the formalities (big conferences which require hotel stays) and have monthly training sessions in each prefectural education centre. It would be a lot easier for ALTs to do a good job with some regular assistance and a forum in which they can ask questions about thier jobs. I think that I am starting to go on a bit. I'll stop-for now. |
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Reesy
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 31
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 4:23 am Post subject: |
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Glenski, you began your post with the following:
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| I try teaching students to analyze sources of information |
I think you need to practice what you teach and seriously look at analyzing the sources that have informed your opinions about JET. May I ask where you got your abundance of over-generalizations and de-contextualized soundbites about the JET Programme? For example, I've already grown quite tired of your standard "They aren't teachers, they are cultural ambassadors" line which you insist on inserting into each and everyone of your anti-JET diatribes. What does this even mean?
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| Also, I know that for the most part ALTs are not deeply involved in lesson planning or presenting lessons anyway. Those tasks are more often left up to the JTE. The ALT's job is more of a cultural ambassador, with some meager assistance in pronunciation and such in the classroom. |
You know this? May I ask how? Based on my knowledge of the subject, JETs may have responsibilities in the following areas: lesson planning, test writing, sports and club activities, school trips, cultural festivals, in-service training, study abroad-related activities, speech contests, entrance examination duties, staff meetings, PTA meetings, materials writing, teacher substitution, and textbook selection to name a few. JET teachers may do all or some of these things. To categorically say that all JETs do this or that only is just plain wrong.
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| Flame me if you like, people, but most JET ALTs have 2-3 classes a day, and the rest of the time they spend in the school doing very little. |
So, "real" teachers should be teaching 5, 6 or 8 classes a day? I wouldn't want to live in a country where you were Minister of Education. Following this logic, society should be paying doctors by the amount of surgeries they perform in a day or Crown (Defense) attorneys should be paid by the number of people they defend in a week (successfully or otherwise).
Come on Glenski, you're smarter than that. I work at a university and I teach 7 classes a week. Should I be paid a per class wage? And please don't give me the "all JETs sit at their desk chatting on Big Daikon all day and have no other responsibilities." Most do as I stated earlier. Education is not sales (which is why IMO eikaiwa teachers are further removed from being "real" teachers than JET teachers are). Teachers do not work on a commission or piecework basis. Do you think they should?
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| they get paid 50,000 yen/month more than an eikaiwa teacher who has twice as many classes and who often has to create the lessons himself and present the whole thing. Why is it so important to the Japanese government that they should pay them so much more to do so little? |
This seems very obvious to me but I think your bitterness about JET teachers is inhibiting your normally sound ability to reason.
There are fundamental differences between eikaiwa teachers and JET teachers. Most importantly, JET teachers work in Japan's public schools and have daily contact with the young people who are required by law to attend school. Eikaiwa teachers work for private businesses where people may attend if they CHOOSE to pay the money. This is a fundamental difference. It would be irresponsible of the Japanese government if they paid JETS the same pittance that so many eikaiwas do. A higher salary means a larger (hence better) body of candidates to choose from.
I am aware that they could raise the standards and get even better candidates. I would support this as it would improve the teaching quality of the candidates. Nonetheless, even as it is, JETs must submit (among other things) an essay, two sealed letters from referees, and university transcripts. This is far more material than what most eikaiwas ask candidates to submit. As a result, administrators can weed out some of the less serious candidates and ensure that there not sending a grand collection of morons, arseholes and child molestors to work in Japanese public schools. This seems like a pretty good reason to me to pay them 50 000 yen a month more than the minimum wage.
JETs and eikaiwa teachers are not the same Glenski. If you have a problem because JETs get a better salary than most eikaiwa teachers, did you ever think that maybe the language schools should pay more? I look at it this way: Education is something that needs to be valued. In many Western countries, teachers are barely paid a subsistence wage. I, for one, am happy that Japan has not compromised standards in the name of short-term budget savings. It's also just plain smart because it attracts a better pool of candidates to help educate the youth of Japan.
With all due respect Glenski, I don't think that you have the breadth of knowledge necessary to support your claims on this issue. Here is some suggested reading on the topic:
Brown, J.D., & Yamashita, S. (1995). English language entrance examinations at Japanese universities: 1993 and 1994. In J.D. Brown & S. Yamashita (eds.), Language Testing in Japan (pp. 86-100). Tokyo: Japan Association of Language Teaching.
Brown, C. And Wada, M. (1998). Current issues in high school English teaching in Japan: An exploratory survey. Language, Culture and Curriculum 11, 1: 97-112.
Gorusch, G. (1999). Monbusho approved textbooks in Japanese high school EFL classes: An aid or a hindrance to educational policy innovations? The Language Teacher 23, 10: 5-15.
Hughes, H. (1999). Cultivating the walled garden: English in Japan. English Studies 80, 6: 556-568.
Ike, Minoru. (1995). A historical review of English in Japan. World Englishes 14, 1: 3-11.
Koike, I. & Tanaka, H. English in foreign language policy in Japan: toward the twenty-first century. World Englishes 14, 1: 13-25.
LoCastro, V. (1996). English language education in Japan. In H. Coleman (ed.), Society and The Language Classroom. Cambridge University Press: London.
McConnell, D. (1996). Education for global integration in Japan: a case study of the JET program. Human Organization 55, 4: 446-457.
McConnell, D. (2000). Importing Diversity: Inside Japan's JET Program. Berkeley: University of California Press.
Scholefield, W. (1996). What do JTEs really want? JALT Journal 18, 1: 7-25.
Tajino A. & Walker, L. (1998). Perspectives on team teaching by students and teachers: exploring foundations for team learning. Language, Culture, and Curriculum 11, 1: 113-131.
Tajino, A. & Tajino, Y (1998). Native and non-native: what can they offer? |
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G Cthulhu
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Way, way off course.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 4:59 am Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
My comments about the JET program are not always negative. Prove that they are.
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That's 'keeping it professional'?! Geez, remind me to never ask you to be childish... ;)
Glenski, I'm sorry, but the impression that I've got from you about the JET programme has *always* been heavily negative - at best you are condescending and at worst you are outrightly hostile towards it. I've always wondered why.
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In fact, I have tried to present it in as fair a way as possible over the years. I often tout the virtues, such as getting your foot in the door with zero experience, having your airfare paid for, getting a higher salary than eikaiwa teachers, and having a multitude of experiences (not just teaching).
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Yes, I accept that you often say things like that, but you *also* trot out the cliches and the outright errors of fact. You do it again below where you say it's 'not true teaching experience' - we've covered that in another thread here quite recently and very good arguments were made for why it could and did count as teaching experience. Yet you still just trot the line out. Why?
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Equally so, it has its negatives, such as not true teaching experience, putting people in rural settings (scary if you don't know any Japanese and if this is your first experience in a foreign land), the lengthy application process (not to mention the fact that applicants will have to pay for their own transportation & lodging to attend the interview, which may be quite a distance from their hometown), and the fact that they hire people with any degree instead of something related to teaching (even if teaching grammar is not a full-scale obligation, they are placed in classes that expect it to be used and explained properly).
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And many of those aren't really valid complaints IMO: JET is *not* a teaching programme to the Japanese government. Read the CLAIR documentation. Teaching isn't mentioned. Or, if you prefer, try 'Importing Diversity' if you want a broad overview o the programme and what it is and isn't.
Take some of your 'negatives' above: transport to the interview. So? Few employers in the world provide it. Why should JET be any different? You complain about JETs being paid too much once they're here, but think perhaps that all *applicants* should be transported, put up and fed?! The application process is lengthy. Again, so what? If you think you can recruit 3000+ people in less than six months every year then you should be working in human resources, not wasting your time as a teacher! Personally, I think the turn-around time on applications is pretty quick given it involves trying to co-ordinate three government ministry's, 47 prefectural BOE's and 1500 Municipals BOEs. Feel free to make positive suggestions on how to improve this... ;)
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The point I was trying to make was that the news article was misleading. Japanese teachers where I work (high school) have 2-5 classes a day, and they do so much more than a JET ALT.
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Unfair comparison: you work in a private high school, yes? Privates are well known for being more intensive in work requirements than the public school system. I'd agree that the article was misleading. But I'd also suggest that your initial reply was equally misleading.
I'd suggest, and this suggestion is based on knowing upwards of 100 JETs (and another 50-odd currently spread around the country), that most JET ALTs do between 3 and 5 lessons a day, plus all their other tasks in and out of school. Again I'd ask, who is to blame if the JET isn't doing more? The employer for failing to utilise the JET or the JET? Let me put it another way: who has the power in the relationship?
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I wasn't even beginning to try comparing them, so why did you?
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Because if ALTs aren't 'doing enough work' then there is either some objective standard to hold them too (feel free to point it out) or you were implicitly comparing them to other people in similar roles - which means JTLs and private/non-JET ALTs.
*You* made the direct comparison to eikaiwa teachers. I'm sorry if you thought my replies suggesting the comparison was invidious bothered you. Do you then feel that your example was closer and more applicable than my trying to find an example of work closer to the ALT role? It says much about how you see the role of JET ALTs if that's the case.
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My main point here was that they make significantly more money than a conversation school teacher (and nearly the same as a JTE in his/her first year), yet they don't have nearly the same responsibilities. That's all. I don't think you can refute that.
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I wasn't attempting to 'refute' it. I was saying that the situation across the programme is far too wide to go about making claims such as you do. I'm not about to 'refute' what you say because I know that your initial assumption is outrightly false: what eikaiwa workers and JETs are both employed to do are not the same thing. The fact that you keep assuming JET=ALT suggests I'm not the one that's off-track here.
But even if we take what an eikaiwa teacher should be doing and the superficial appearance of JET (discounting all those CIRs and SEAs here, glenski?) then I'd still ask why the pay disparity matters? I've suggested reasons why it makes sense. You've substantially ignored them.
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And, in my book 50,000 yen/month (or 600,000 yen per YEAR) is certainly "so much" more. How can you argue that it is not? (I am not concerned with overtime from eikaiwa jobs; I am merely comparing baseline salaries.)
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Then you are being disingenous again IMO. To insist that only baseline salaries be considered is childish - the *fact* of the matter is that many (perhaps most even) eikaiwa teachers *can* earn more than most JETs *on their base contracts*.
But look at it another way, I provided at least one reason why it wasn't unreasonable. You never bothered replying to that. So I'll mention it again, do *you* think the earning potential is important or not? Do *you* think the fact that an eikaiwa teacher can stick around far longer is important or not? Do you think that the higher initial costs and more extreme situations JETs can and do face does not warrant some form of higher compensation? These are all possible considerations or replies, yet you neither appear to be aware of them or even consider them.
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And, yes, I realize that many JET ALTs work in rural settings.
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| The fact of life is, and while they continue to be paid the same as they've always been paid (that is, their salaries continue to decline due to inflation), they will only get people to consider the positions if they make them more attractive. |
I agree with this line of thinking. But, it is the amount itself, compared to what other types of jobs get that concerns me."
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You're quibbling over 50,000 yen?! *Why* are you so upset over this amount?
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I don't claim that eikaiwa teachers are godsends or the be-all-know-all in the teaching world. I'm not that naive. But the fact that many DO plan lessons and work until 9pm and have to work overtime if they want to meet JET ALT wages is just a little disconcerting to me. That's all. I'm not losing sleep over it.
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What on earth makes you think JET ALTs don't plan lessons?! Again, you keep writing from a very peculiar point of view about what JET is and isn't. *That's* what I'm taking exception to: depsite people repeatedly pointing out errors in your view you just keep trotting it out and making or implying snide comments about JET.
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| As the original article stated, JET is having trouble recruiting in some countries. Why is that? Could it be because the exchange rate and the movements in currency and costs of living no longer make JEt an attractive offer? |
The exchange rate fluctuates daily, as you know, and in the past decade or more, it has waffled between 130 and 115. I find it hard to believe that you could use this as a point of contention. Cost of living? Maybe.
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In constant yen terms the JET salary has *fallen* every year since the beginning of the programme. My apologies if I was unclear on that point.
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Before anyone chooses to flame me with their individual experiences of working hard as a JET ALT, consider that a handful (at most) of examples will not cut it as a rebuttal.
Then you are being disingenous and intellectually dishonest.
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Why is that so? All I'm saying is that if someone offers only an exception or two to rebut my statements, how much ground is that to stand on?
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About the same as yours.
Except that theirs would be based upon direct personal experience of JET, as opposed to yours.
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I'm not saying personal experience is unjustified; I'm saying only that a single example is weak support. CLAIR officials are welcome to read this and reply (however unlikely that may be, I agree), but I'm sure there are many others out there with lots more experience than me with JET experiences. I just don't see the strength of an exception or two.
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I was trying to point out that *you* don't have *any* support or experience to draw upon, nor did you offer any concrete examples in your post. To me, all it looke like you were doing was slagging off the JET Programme again.
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Exactly what statement do I need to source?
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How about 'JETs don't plan lessons'. 'JETs sit around doing little after their two or three lessons'. 'JETs don't get or have true teaching experience'. Or lets take a statement you've made in posts in the past that show your real attitude, 'JETs are only assistants'... etc., etc.
You're attitude towards JET rings out very clearly. What I want to know is why you're so angry towards JET?
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JET ALTs work schedule is difficult to document, but it is widely known that they don't teach as many classes or have the overall work load that teachers in other institutions do. (I'll gladly provide my weekly calendar if you want to see it as proof. And, my calendar from my language school days.)
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Again, so what?! Look, they're not the same job. Again, you keep trotting this out and yet I don't see that you have much of a case.
Let me put it this way: are you going to start complaining about how under-worked and over-paid English teachers at universities are? No? Then you're being selective in your criticism IMO. Remember, most of them get paid more and work 'very little', even compared to what you seem to think JETs do. Yet, they're doing as much the same job as a JET ALT is doing compared to a commercial eikaiwa teacher. Does that make the point clearer? I'm beginning to think you can't even begin to see your prejudice here.
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JET ALTs don't work past 4pm, so as I wrote, they have more opportunity to slip in other kinds of work, compared to eikaiwa and high school teachers. I never said they did that kind of thing, just that it was more available to them.
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No, you implied directly that they could work even more, as you have also implied in the past. Which I'll try and remember next time I finally manage to get out of school before 5pm...
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JET ALTs have more time off. I based this on the fact that in my high school, we have weeks and weeks off for summer vacation, winter vacation, spring break, Golden Week, school trips, sports events (daytime), and others. My language school didn't offer nearly this amount of time, and most don't. Language schools are not public institutions, as you wrote.
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So you admit that you base your comment on *JETs* off of *your* experience at something other than JET?! And you expect to be taken seriously?!
Glenski, the part where I pointed out that the standard contract specifies 12 days nenji - did you read that part? Do you honestly think that most JETs get the summer or other vacations off simply because you do?! I assure you, and if you'd ever bothered to do any research you'd know, that the majority of JETs *don't* get that time off. Some do, sure, but most don't. Or are you simply trying to say that because they're not in class but are out on a school trip they are somehow 'not working'? Sorry, but that complaint won't fly either: it's simply another aspect of the job.
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As I wrote in the beginning, here and on my other post, I knew my comments were going to attract attention. So be it. I stand by my opinions, and if you want to argue constructively with numbers, let's do it. My main contention was not to put JET in a bad light. It was to show how ridiculous the Yomiuri article was.
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I'd agree the article was trash. But you'r own comments weren't much better. I'm truly sorry for you if you can't see that. As for numbers, I doubt it would do any good: you haven't fronted up with any and I'm not inclined to bother doing it either.
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By the way, Cthulhu, since you wrote...
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| You, of course, being extensively qualified and experienced to comment, eh? ;) |
...please tell us your qualifications to make your comments. I have worked in Japan 5 years, as a language school teacher, a private lesson tutor, and a high school teacher (not ALT), and I have made a few (admittedly) contacts with JET ALTs directly. I have also read a lot about JET experiences, not just from www.bigdaikon.com either. I hope that wasn't your sole source of information. I never tried to portray myself as an expert on JET. Are you one?
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More so than you appear to be, perhaps.
What are my qualifications? I don't see that they have any bearing on the points I'm trying to make. The points stand and fall by themselves. But since you ask, I've been in and out of Japan since 1991. I've been with and around JETs (ALTs, CIRs and SEAs) in a variety of prefectures and situations since then. I'm a qualified language teacher, have specialist qualifications in cognitive science (with a further language aquisition specialisation) and have taught in high schools here for three years. I've lectured at MEXT conferences and conducted training sessions for prefectural teachers (both JETs and JTLs), I've worked at the kencho level on training programmes for ALTs and organised and run such programmes. I've published on language aquisition theory and taken part in research programmes into some of that theory. And I've done JET for three years. Want me to go on or can we dispense with the qualification/experience p1ssing contest? ;) |
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Reesy
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 31
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 6:38 am Post subject: |
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Glenski, if I may point out a contradiction in your last post which I didn't read before I posted:
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| I often tout the virtues, such as getting your foot in the door with zero experience, having your airfare paid for, getting a higher salary than eikaiwa teachers, and having a multitude of experiences (not just teaching) |
The very next line you say:
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| Equally so, it has its negatives, such as not true teaching experience |
So, is JET teaching experience or isn't it? I have already given my opinions on this thread and others why JET is "true" teaching experience, so I won't go down that road again. You, however, seem to be wavering or less sure.
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| All I'm saying is that if someone offers only an exception or two to rebut my statements, how much ground is that to stand on? I'm not saying personal experience is unjustified; I'm saying only that a single example is weak support. |
And where are your sources and references? On the one hand, you are saying that personal opinions are weak support and yet, as far as I have seen, you base your opinion on nothing more than heresy and conclusions drawn from chat rooms and personal conversations. Don't you think it's a bit unfair of you to ask everyone else for quantitative data (which I provided via the reading list I suggested in my last e-mail) while you have nothing of any validity to offer either quantitatively or qualitatively? |
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