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GZ



Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:35 am    Post subject: General Questions Reply with quote

I have some general questions for people who have lived or worked in GuangZhou or ShenZhen:

1) Can foreign citizens rent an apartment in GZ or SZ with a tourist visa? I am considering to enter China with a 3-mth tourist visa, rent a private apartment in GuangZhou, then start hunting for jobs from there. Is it a good idea?

2) How long is a Z visa and the living permit good for? Is it 6 mths or a year?

3) How much does it cost for the working and living permit in GuangZhou?

4) Where/how do I apply for them when I arrive in GuangZhou?

Any help and comments will be appreciated!

TKS
GZ
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cujobytes



Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 1031
Location: Zhuhai, (Sunny South) China.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
1) Can foreign citizens rent an apartment in GZ or SZ with a tourist visa? I am considering to enter China with a 3-mth tourist visa, rent a private apartment in GuangZhou, then start hunting for jobs from there. Is it a good idea?

I'm not sure but I'd be surprised if you could rent an apartment on an L visa.
Roger would be the man to ask.
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tw



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898

PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Roger would be the man to ask.


Even better, meet up with Roger in GZ.
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Roger



Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138

PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I only meet with people who do not spell Chinese place names in such an amateurish fashion: GuangZhou, Guang Zhou, guang zhou, guang Zhou.
The poster asking this question can refer to my answer to that unlucky blue bird who is in a legal limbo in Shenzhen.

As a rule: no foreign national is allowed to rent accommodation in China unless from an approved business that caters to tourists and foreign visitors - i.e. a hotel or an estate.
This has much to do with socialism and scarcity of lodgings available, but also with the need to monitor people movements.
I remember that in Europe you cannot rent flats or rooms without reporting to the police within a week or two, unless you are willing to accept unpleasasnt consequences.

In China, such consequences can be: cops raiding your lodgings in the dead of the night and taking you to their own guesthouse until deportation.

Many get away without any hassles from the authorities, but they are taking chances.
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tw



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898

PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roger wrote:
I only meet with people who do not spell Chinese place names in such an amateurish fashion: GuangZhou, Guang Zhou, guang zhou, guang Zhou.


I am sorry Roger but you lost me here. Exactly just how is one supposed to spell "Guang Zhou"? Confused
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Alex_P



Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 174
Location: Hangzhou. Zheijiang, China

PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 6:18 am    Post subject: Re: General Questions Reply with quote

GZ wrote:
I have some general questions for people who have lived or worked in GuangZhou or ShenZhen:

1) Can foreign citizens rent an apartment in GZ or SZ with a tourist visa? I am considering to enter China with a 3-mth tourist visa, rent a private apartment in GuangZhou, then start hunting for jobs from there. Is it a good idea?

2) How long is a Z visa and the living permit good for? Is it 6 mths or a year?

3) How much does it cost for the working and living permit in GuangZhou?

4) Where/how do I apply for them when I arrive in GuangZhou?

Any help and comments will be appreciated!

TKS
GZ


Dear Friend:

Answer to No. 2: The length and duration of your new (in-folio) Z visa plus resident permit plus multiple re-entry permt will depend upon the length of your contract of employment. Its duration is generally matched to the duration of the contract, i.e., if the contract of employment has a three-months terms, then the Z visa will have a three-months terms; if the contract of employment has a six-months term, etc., etc.

It also depends upon the date of expiration of Z visa that the employer submits on the government form. In my previous position, my contract terminated on January 20, 2005, at the beginning of the Spring Festival, but my employer, when submitted all of the documents for processing, requested, and was subsequently granted, an expiration of March 1, 2005.

I cannot help you with answers to Nos. 3 and 4 but in Northern China, you cannot process your own papers; rather, you need to be sponsored by an employer who has both the authorization to hire a foreign national, the ability to secure a Foreign Expert Certificate, etc., etc.

As for your spelling of Guangzhou, it is irrelevant. I understand you and I will answer your questions, in spite of what another person has commented.

I have sent you a private e-mail outlining some good contacts.
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lowes13



Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 56
Location: Jiangsu

PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guang zhou would be correct, I�m responding just for the fun of it.
Guang zhou has two Chinese characters and so the city name in pin yin needs to be divided in two parts; the second part of the name is not capitalised.

Pedantic, maybe, but correct!

Cheers
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GZ



Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:23 pm    Post subject: Roger Reply with quote

If you know Chinese, you would know that 广州 should be spelled as Guang (广) Zhou (州)or Guangzhou。 The name contains two characters and each character has its own meaning. Thus, it should be capitalized as a way to inform readers that "Zhou" is the second character of the name(there are many Chinese characters' pronunciations are 'zhou', if you do not capitalize the second one, readers could perceive it as another character whose pronunciation is also 'zhou'). If you do not want to capitalize the second character, you will need to write it as Guangzhou(no space in between), so people would know that these two pinyins are supposed to represent one noun not two.

Not sure if I've made it clear enough, but if we have to type correctly here, it should be: Guang Zhou or Guangzhou.

i.e: Chinese names:
张子明 should be written as :
1) Zhang Zi Ming (capitalize each character to inform others that the 3 characters are together to represent one noun)
2) Zhang Ziming(Capitalize his family name and the first character of his first name, no need to capitalize the second character of the first name, but make sure no space in the first name-otherwise, ming could be considered as part of other word)

If you do not like to meet people who make mistake, I think I won't be interested in meeting you either. We are not God, we all make mistakes. One piece of advice for you: ask yourself ' Who am I? And what I am doing for a living?" - Currently you are an English teacher, and your job is to teach English(my apology if you're not a FT). How many mistakes your students make each day? Are you going to refuse to see them the next day b/c they spell 'Roger' as 'roger'? haha, I am sure you won't. So, rethink about your attitude when saying "
Roger wrote:
I only meet with people who do not spell Chinese place names in such an amateurish fashion: GuangZhou, Guang Zhou, guang zhou, guang Zhou.
Think about what would your dear Chinese students react when they hear this.

Thanks for your info about visas in Guang Dong. I certainly will find your answers to 'that unlucky blue bird who is in a legal limbo in Shenzhen'.

PS: Roger, besides Chinese, any of other languages are foreign to me. I make mistakes everyday, but I learn more from them everyday. If I've never made any mistakes, I've never progressed in any languages learning. You would understand this if you try to learn a foreign language.

GZ


Last edited by GZ on Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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tw



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898

PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lowes13 wrote:
Guang zhou would be correct, I�m responding just for the fun of it.
Guang zhou has two Chinese characters and so the city name in pin yin needs to be divided in two parts; the second part of the name is not capitalised.

Pedantic, maybe, but correct!


Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes So that's what all the fuss was about.

And as such Hong Kong should be Hongkong but wait that's wrong because Hongkong is in Cantonese so it should be Xianggang (香港).
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tw



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898

PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Roger Reply with quote

GZ wrote:
If you know Chinese, you would know that 广州 should be spelled as Guang (广) Zhou (州)or Guangzhou。 The name contains two characters and each character has its own meaning. Thus, it should capitalized as a way to inform readers that "Zhou" is the second character of the name(there are many Chinese characters' pronunciations are 'zhou', if you do not capitalize the second one, readers could perceive it as another character whose pronunciation is also 'zhou'). If you do not want to capitalize the second character, you will need to write it as Guangzhou(no space in between), so people would know that these two pinyins are supposed to represent one noun not two.

Not sure if I've made it clear enough, but if we have to type correctly here, it should be: Guang Zhou or Guangzhou.


I had a difficult time with students who didn't capitalize their given names. Something like Wang Wangan can be "Wang Wang An" or "Wang Wan Gan" unless they wrote out their name in Chinese also.
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kev7161



Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 5880
Location: Suzhou, China

PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love how these threads get WAY out of whack due to minor quibbles. But I learned something new about the Chinese language thanks to the OP.

Quote:
This has much to do with socialism and scarcity of lodgings available


Come to Hangzhou (oh, wait . . . Hang zhou, right?) - - there are a TON of empty apartment buildings just ripe for the pickings.

As to the length of a Z visa: remember that you don't need to get a long-term Z visa any longer if you will be teaching in China. Your employer should convert that visa into a Residence Permit soon after you begin working there. I was told that the PSB in Su zhou can't give anything beyond one year at a time. But that's just one city, one school. If we've learned nothing else, we know the inconsistencies in China vary greatly. But I'll bet one year (for a one year contract) is somewhat common.

An aside to Roger: Rog, I've stood by your side on a few issues raised on this board (remember the brouhaha over classroom attendance - - ah, fun times) and many times, it seems like you've got your sh*t together when dispensing advice. However, there are also many times when you are jumping down someone's throat for (seemingly) no reason at all. I've noticed this trend more and more in the last 3 or 4 months (as have some other posters, I'm sure). Now, I know I don't like criticism (unless it's constructive and professional, naturally), so I'm not sure why you'd respond to this thread in the manner which you did. Although I've only been here 2 years, I can understand the frustrations that you may have with "newbies" and their problems and questions - - especially when we "long-timers" have seen these same inquiries time and again. But I've tried the search function myself and, quite frankly, it has me bamboozled. I get a lot of unwanted threads and often don't find what I'm looking for, so I don't really bother with it too much any longer. I may well be guilty of repeating threads and ideas, so sorry about that everyone. There's nothing wrong with sarcastic advice on a day when you're not feeling too sociable, but balancing it with some levity or some REAL advice can go a long way. Just my two cents.
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Volodiya



Joined: 03 May 2004
Posts: 1025
Location: Somewhere, out there

PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding OP's question number one-

Roger wrote:
Quote:
As a rule: no foreign national is allowed to rent accommodation in China unless from an approved business that caters to tourists and foreign visitors - i.e. a hotel or an estate.
This has much to do with socialism and scarcity of lodgings available, but also with the need to monitor people movements.
I remember that in Europe you cannot rent flats or rooms without reporting to the police within a week or two, unless you are willing to accept unpleasasnt consequences.

In China, such consequences can be: cops raiding your lodgings in the dead of the night and taking you to their own guesthouse until deportation.

Many get away without any hassles from the authorities, but they are taking chances.

Roger, I have to say, this is really muddled up. It mixes a number of issues together and leaves the impression, "You better not do it," instead of sheading light on the question of, "Under what circumstances can you do it?"

If the landlord has obtained permission to rent to a foreigner, and the L visa holder and landlord go together to the local police to register the foreigner's presence at that apartment, and the proposed term of rental does not exceed the term of the visa itself, I know of no reason why it couldn't be done without raising the least concern on the part of the authorities.

[As always, I'm open to correction on this, or any other point of Chinese Law, if someone can point me to the law that says otherwise.]

I had a recent experience with registering a foreign national at our apartment with the police. She had entered the country on an L (tourist) visa: she had travelled, without any intervening stays at a hotel, to our home. The next morning, we went to the police station (within 24 hours of the time of her arrival in China, as required by Chinese Law). Registration was fast and simple, and free. She was given a document showing she'd registered as required and told to keep it, together with her passport, until she left the country.
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GZ



Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I enter China with a tourist visa and stay at my Chinese friend's house, do I still need to go to the police department within 24 hours?
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tw



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898

PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GZ wrote:
If I enter China with a tourist visa and stay at my Chinese friend's house, do I still need to go to the police department within 24 hours?


Yes.
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cujobytes



Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 1031
Location: Zhuhai, (Sunny South) China.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tw wrote:
GZ wrote:
If I enter China with a tourist visa and stay at my Chinese friend's house, do I still need to go to the police department within 24 hours?


Yes.


Yes you SHOULD. I personally wouldn't bother if it's a short term stay. I often have friends stay with me from overnight up to a couple of weeks and we've never bothered with that. I've also stayed with friends and never bothered to register with the local law.

Having said said that, it is the law and there are always possible consequences.
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