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tofuman
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
Posts: 937
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 Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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tw, I have thought about your case. Something is not penciling out. You were a government employee and had a manager's position at one time. Being in your late thirties, civil service jobs are nice to have. They provide a lot of security in the States, even for incompetent and lazy people.
It appears that you left a secure position in Canada and came here, only to be sent home as underqualified. Do you see the problem here? I was surprised to learn your age because the position that you ended up in seems likely for a younger person, but not for a person with experience.
The dislike of Mainlanders for ABCs is well known among the Chinese community in the States, yet you came here with not only yellow skin, but substandard qualifications. I talked with an ABC about coming to China a few years ago. She said "No way. They don't like us." She knew about it. Why didn't you? (Spelling edit)
Something else that concerns me is your altruism. Someone as seemingly desperate as you are to come back here and help your people is a sitting duck for these treacherous laoban.
Anyway, I'm going to delete some of the things that I said because they were they simply wrong.
Take care.
Last edited by tofuman on Sat Jul 23, 2005 5:42 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Alex_P
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 174
Location: Hangzhou. Zheijiang, China
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 3:09 pm Post subject: Working in China |
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[quote="tofuman"]tw, I have thought about your case. Something is not penciling out. You were a government employee and had a manager's position at one time. Being in your late thirties, civil service jobs are nice to have. They provide a lot of security in the States, even for incompetent and lazy people.
It appears that you left a secure position in Canada and came here, only to be sent home as underqualified. Do you see the problem here? I was surprised to learn your age because the position that you ended up in seems likely for a younger person, but not for a person with experience.
The dislike of Mainlanders for ABCs is well known among the Chinese community in the States, yet you came here with not only yellow skin, but substandard qualifications. I talked with an ABC about coming to China a few years ago. She said "No way. They don't like us." She knew about it. why didn't you?
Something else that concerns me is your altruism. Someone as seemingly desperate as you are to come back here and help your people is a sitting duck for these treacherous laoban.
Anyway, I'm going to delete some of the things that I said because they were they simply wrong.
Dear TW,
Now I am even more horrified. You are an "ABC" and you have "yellow skin" according to the post above.
I can only apologize again for such crass ignorance and maladroitness. As I said earlier, please send me your private e-mail and I will endeavor to help you.
As for all of these judgmental tones, this should be a bulletin board where we help each other in China, not bulletin board where we sit in judgment like the Sanhedrin.
I'm at your service.
Alex P. |
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tw
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| tofuman wrote: |
| tw, I have thought about your case. Something is not penciling out. You were a government employee and had a manager's position at one time. Being in your late thirties, civil service jobs are nice to have. They provide a lot of security in the States, even for incompetent and lazy people. |
Wow, you are just a walking encyclopaedia full of misinformation aren't you Mr. tofumoron? Have you tried pushing paper every day? Have you heard of government downsizing? Besides, after so many years of doing the same boring routine day after day I needed a change. And if you are implying that I am lazy, then maybe you should wonder why at my last school I taught 38 hours a week in the first term, then 24 in the last term. Unless I am wrong, I think most FT's prefer as much money for as few hours as possible. Isn't that right tofud*ck? How many hours a week do YOU teach? Incompetent? Ha! Oh you know something? The more you write the more it shows just how ignorant and just what an imbecile you are. Again, for your information, people wanting to apply for Canadian government jobs must go through an aptitute test plus an interview. I am very sure that civil servants in your country are a bunch of morons, but don't think other countries' civil servants are too. If you don't know anything, then perhaps you should keep that thing you called a mouth shut. Right now, you are making yourself more and more of an ass. To think, you call yourself a teacher in China. Sheeesh! WHO would want to learn from YOU???
| Quote: |
| It appears that you left a secure position in Canada and came here, only to be sent home as underqualified. Do you see the problem here? I was surprised to learn your age because the position that you ended up in seems likely for a younger person, but not for a person with experience. |
Hey pea-brain! Uhmmm...are you blind or you just can't read? I said I left because I had completed my one-year contract. What are you? Forrest Gump's missing twin brother??? Do you want to know what the problem was? The problem here is the university didn't do enough homework to find out about it until it was too late.
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| The dislike of Mainlanders for ABCs is well known among the Chinese community in the States, yet you came here with not only yellow skin, but substandard qualifications. I talked with an ABC about coming to China a few years ago. She said "No way. They don't like us." She knew about it. why didn't you? |
One last time, do try to keep your inferior stereotyping half-assed opinions and knowledge to yourself. I am NOT an American. Canada is NOT USA and thank God for that if you are supposed to be what an "average American" is. There is a world outside of USA. The world doesn't revolve around the USA. Countries don't model after the USA. Personally, I don't think it has to do with being an ABC that the mainlanders hate. I think it has to do with being pompous arrogant and ignorant Americans like YOU.
Again, if you want to keep attacking my "substandard" qualifications, then maybe you want to tell us why YOU took a TEFL course. I guess your degree is not in education. So, it means you are not a properly trained educator. Therefore, you should pack up and go back to USA so you don't contaminate Chinese minds by feeding them all these wrong information. Frankly, I see that you are only there because you think highly of yourself with your third-string degree from some swamp college full of inbreds.
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| Something else that concerns me is your altruism. Someone as seemingly desperate as you are to come back here and help your people is a sitting duck for these treacherous laoban. |
You just mind your own business and leave that to me. I am a big boy, I can take good care of myself. Besides, I am fluently bilingual in China so I don't have to worry about some bossman trying to rip me off. There won't be any miscommunications or misunderstandings. Perhaps if you put some effort into learning some Chinese instead of thinking of who to bang next, you just might see how handy and useful it can be! Rest assured, if I do get into trouble, I will NEVER ask you for assistance.
Last edited by tw on Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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tofuman
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
Posts: 937
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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Way too much sensitivity, tw. I didn't mean to say that you were incompetent and lazy, only that many civil servants in the States are.
tw :"OK I will come straight out and tell everyone what happened 2 days ago. I was told by my FORMER next employer that my application for FEC was rejected -- even though both parties had signed the official SAFEA contract and I had passed my medical exam. The reason: no bachelor's degree, even though I was said to be a very good teacher at my last school. Nope, no exceptions -- even though this was only a different university in the same city."
tw: "Hey pea-brain! Uhmmm...are you blind or you just can't read? I said I left because I had completed my one-year contract."
There is far too much personal abuse and anger on your part to continue in this vain, wouldn't you agree?
Good luck, tw |
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tw
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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Well, look who is trying desperately to get that last punch in at the sound of the bell.
| tofuman wrote: |
| tw :I was told by my FORMER next employer that my application for FEC was rejected |
Translation: no longer my NEXT, AKA *new* employer. What are you? Three years old? Maybe I should translate this into CHINESE for you?
BTW, back then you said:
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| What is your problem? Don't you understand that a bachelor's degree is the minimum educational qualification to legally teach in China? Why are you so intent on doing anything but what is required? |
Now you say:
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| The regulations themselves say that a candidate should have a bachelor's degree. They don't say he must have a degree. |
Care to explain this?
Also:
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| I have been offered several jobs here and am just finishing up my second year. No one ever asked me about a TEFL, CELTA, TESOL qualification. |
Says a lot about the quality YOUR employers care about in their FT's.
Last but not least:
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| tw, I have thought about your case. Something is not penciling out. |
Somebody has waaaaaaaaaaay too much time on his hands. Don't you have something more productive to do like lesson planning instead of lecturing some uneducated low-life middle-aged Western Chinese man? Oh wait, if your employer didn't care about the quality of their FT's, then of course they wouldn't care about the quality of their FT's teaching. Silly me, and here I thought you treat your job with professionalism. Say, how's the hangover?
OK Moderator. I hereby end my bickering with this poor pathetic misguided wretched soul. |
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tofuman
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
Posts: 937
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:03 am Post subject: |
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tw, About the discrepancy between my posts about the bachelor's degree. That has been a hotly debated topic, turning on the meaning of "should."
Apparently, the intent of the regulation is to set a certain standard in hopes of keeping immature and underqualified individuals out of China.
It may be interpreted differently in different places. It can be interpreted as "must" when it suits someone's purpose. It can be interpreted as "should" when it suits another purpose.
I can't say, in your, case what happened. It may be that the school decided it needed a white face so they went with the stricter interpretation. Who knows. Lying is fairly standard proceedure here.
Anyway, good luck. [edit] The best thing for you to do would be to get a good degree so there will be no question about your qualifications, but as we get older, school becomes less attractive. I struggle with some of the same issues, but am out of the ESL business for a while.
Last edited by tofuman on Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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tw
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:37 am Post subject: |
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| tofuman wrote: |
| I can't say, in your, case what happened. It may be that the school decided it needed a white face so they went with the stricter interpretation. Who knows. Lying is fairly standard proceedure here. |
Who knows? It could be. Given the fact that Dalian is full of laowais from all walks of life and all nationalities with a degree and don't have a Chinese face all competing for a teaching job, they didn't really need me if they were just looking for someone with a white face to fill job vacancies. I am used to it by now. Just last night I applied for a job in Tianjin for teaching adults. The agent e-mailed me and told me that if I could speak Chinese and willing to teach in Ningbo then I could go there. I wrote back and said that I was applying for the Tianjin job. The response, they were looking for native speaker only. I wrote "I AM A NATIVE SPAKER" and never heard back from them again.
It seems that many Chinese have this mentality that anyone who has a Chinese name and/or not born in the West can not speak perfect English. Good grief! A recent potential employer did just that. "We notice you have a Chinese name. Were you born in Canada? [sic]"
Peace, Tofuman? |
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tofuman
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
Posts: 937
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:48 am Post subject: |
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| Any luck with a good recruiter? |
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cujobytes
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 1031
Location: Zhuhai, (Sunny South) China.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:49 am Post subject: |
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Alex_P wrote:
[/quote]Now I am even more horrified. You are an "ABC" and you have "yellow skin" according to the post above
[/quote]
What did someone say about the PC police? Yes he does have yellow skin as far as the potential employer is concerned. And yes he is an ABC. If you know anything about China and the Chinese you know these are not sensitive issues to them, only to th American PC brigade. You state elsewhere you have been in China for some years. Your unawareness of Chinese pride in the fact that they have yellow skin (It's often been pointed out to me by Chinese) and the fact that ABC simply means American Born Chinese and isn't racist, it's how ABCs refer to themselves, makes me doubt it. Have you been living in your own little world here.
I believe you are a recruiter. |
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tw
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:52 am Post subject: |
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| cujobytes wrote: |
| What did someone say about the PC police? Yes he does have yellow skin as far as the potential employer is concerned. And yes he is an ABC. |
Not ABC (A=American) nor CBC but pretty well as good as being a CBC. |
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cujobytes
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 1031
Location: Zhuhai, (Sunny South) China.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:02 am Post subject: |
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| tw wrote: |
| cujobytes wrote: |
| What did someone say about the PC police? Yes he does have yellow skin as far as the potential employer is concerned. And yes he is an ABC. |
Not ABC (A=American) nor CBC but pretty well as good as being a CBC. |
OK TW, forgot you were a CBC. (Those bloody ABCs eh
 )
But really, is it an offensive term? |
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tw
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:04 am Post subject: |
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| tofuman wrote: |
| Any luck with a good recruiter? |
The only recruiters I know are the ones posting ads on EFL/ESL job ad sites. 99% of them never reply. Do keep in mind that the schools they are recruiting for are looking for FT's they can use to bring in customers (students). Most of your Chinese still consider "white face = can speak and teach English". Therefore, one look at my photo and/or name and my file goes into the trash can. Oddly, 99% of the students I spoke to in private, young and old, males and females, have told me that they prefer a Chinese-face FT because they feel more at ease.
Last edited by tw on Thu Jun 30, 2005 4:33 am; edited 1 time in total |
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tw
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:16 am Post subject: |
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| cujobytes wrote: |
OK TW, forgot you were a CBC. (Those bloody ABCs eh )
But really, is it an offensive term? |
Nope, I don't consider ABC/BBC/CBC offensive. In Canada, I sometimes call myself a Chinaman and that term is considered very derogatory by some Chinese who are a bit too politically-correct. I find it cute. After all, if we can have "Englishman", "Frenchman", why not "Chinaman"?
In the USA people of Indian (as in INDIA) heritage are referred to by many Americans as "Hindus". THAT is offensive because Hinduism is a religion, while the Indians who wear turbans are Punjabis from the Indian province of Punjab, and their religious faith is Sikhism.
I did an English corner on euphemism in Qingdao (I did NOT pick the topic so don't ask me why). The Chinese found is quite amusing that in the West we have to try not to offend anyone.
Last edited by tw on Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
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GZ
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:35 am Post subject: |
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| tw wrote: |
| Oddly, 99% of students, young and old, males and females, have told me that they prefer a Chinese-face FT because they feel more at ease. |
I totally agree w/ TW on this. I taught ESL in Guang Dong (I always capitalize names so no one will confuse w/ the pinyin here) last summer. I cannot say 99%, but many students have told me that they felt the same way as TW stated above. However, I think it is also one of the marketing strategies that private English training centers use in China: "get to know foreigners and their cultures before you go abroad". The idea is not only to get the students to come in to learn more English, but also to force them to be comfortable and familiar w/ 'foreigners' and 'foreign cultures' as a method to reduce culture shock when they go aboard. And yes, Chinese parents love this idea including myself. But the concern is how many schools actually pay attention to what they're advertising in public?  |
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tw
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 4:35 am Post subject: |
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| GZ wrote: |
| tw wrote: |
| Oddly, 99% of students, young and old, males and females, have told me that they prefer a Chinese-face FT because they feel more at ease. |
However, I think it is also one of the marketing strategies that private English training centers use in China: "get to know foreigners and their cultures before you go abroad". The idea is not only to get the students to come in to learn more English, but also to force them to be comfortable and familiar w/ 'foreigners' and 'foreign cultures' as a method to reduce culture shock when they go aboard. |
OK, I modified my "99%" statement a bit so as not to create misunderstanding. Well, I have news for anyone in China who wants to study in Vancouver -- they will see a lot more Asians in certain parts of Vancouver than they would see whites.
Last edited by tw on Thu Jun 30, 2005 8:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
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