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Help - Need Legal Info Quick
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cujobytes



Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 1031
Location: Zhuhai, (Sunny South) China.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote](Freud would certainly have more than a few words to say about what 'Cujosux's posting of that image represents.)
Quote:

It represents how I picture you Zero dero'.
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Chris_Crossley



Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 1797
Location: Still in the centre of Furnace City, PRC, after eight years!!!

PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 7:54 am    Post subject: Booted out after ten years even if you're married? Reply with quote

Zero Hero wrote:
All residence in China is temporary (at least for non-Chinese nationals) and there is a maximum limit of ten years of such residence placed on all foreigners (judging from posts which read such as 'I am to stay here for life', many obviously do not realise this). In the entire history of the PRC only a handful of permanent residence permits have ever been issued, and most of these were granted to (what they call) 'return home Chinese'.


What about if you are married to a Chinese citizen, as I am? Are the authorities going to boot me and my child out after ten years, leaving my wife here? (My daughter has British citizenship, even though she was born in China.) I would like some clarification on this issue, please, as I am unaware of this regulation.

I remember watching a programme in the "Dialogue" series on CCTV-9 a year ago when American-born Mr. Sidney Chaplin, who had first come to China as a journalist after WWII, said that he had lived in China for 55 years (then again, he did say he had taken Chinese citizenship, something which I have no intention of doing).
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Zero Hero



Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 944

PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, legally at least, residency is strictly limited to a maximum of 5 years, though many have not attracted attention till 10 have past. The PSB are starting to enforce such laws, though. My advice would be to move to an area close to a border as soon you will have to be doing frequent border runs. Talk of Chinese citizenship is a moot point.

Permanent permits "are rarely granted. At the end of 2001, no more than 50 such permits had been issued to foreigners". See:

http://www.asiapacificbusiness.ca/apbn/pdfs/bulletin142.pdf
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Chris_Crossley



Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 1797
Location: Still in the centre of Furnace City, PRC, after eight years!!!

PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 8:33 am    Post subject: Change in the law as regards permanent residency? Reply with quote

Zero Hero wrote:
Actually, legally at least, residency is strictly limited to a maximum of 5 years, though many have not attracted attention till 10 have past. The PSB are starting to enforce such laws, though. My advice would be to move to an area close to a border as soon you will have to be doing frequent border runs. Talk of Chinese citizenship is a moot point.

Permanent permits "are rarely granted. At the end of 2001, no more than 50 such permits had been issued to foreigners".


I thought that, in 2004, the law had changed regarding the criteria for foreigners having permanent residence permits. I thought the idea was for the PRC government to encourage more foreigners to stay in China if they wanted to, not discourage them.
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Roger



Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138

PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zero Hero is more often right than wrong - this applies to his advice on residency rights as well.
The so-called "greencard" is a novelty introduced right after China joined the WTO; the name is obviously borrowed from another famous document in currency somewhere else; to compare China to a Western country that actively seeks immigrants is a serious mistake. A Chinese 'greencard" is only a long-term residency permit, no more. It doesn't afford you rights analogous to those immigrants in the West enjoy - access to social services, citizenship rights, unemployment benefit etc.
It gives you a few privileges such as visa-free access to China for several years and the right to switch jobs.

Those who qualify for a 'D' visa must have been married to a CHinese for 5 years; I do not know how many years they will be allowed to sojourn in the PR of C; possibly their visa is renewable upon expiry, but again, it might also be rejected!

In my first school they had an American teacher veteran of 7 years; 3 years later I was informed by our mutual friend that he had to leave that school because the PSB objected to his getting an eleventh year granted.

He didn't have to leave CHina; this country being so underorganised a new school could be found farther afield. Now we are in the 21st century, though; I am not sure he could do the same again - what with computerised immigration.

Then again, Chinese authorities relying on Chinese characters can, perhaps, be deceived by westerners holding new passports and arriving from outside.
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Alex_P



Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 174
Location: Hangzhou. Zheijiang, China

PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:28 pm    Post subject: Very Lucid Posting Reply with quote

Zero Hero wrote:
lowes13 wrote:
Individuals doing business in China and holding an F visa will receive a temporary residence permit which is a yellow slip of paper/form.

I have a year-long, multiple-entry F visa placed in my passport once a year as I visit the Mainland a lot from HK, but I have never needed a "temporary residence permit" (of any colour), nor do I know of anyone else ever needing, or seeing, such a thing. The only stipulation is that, as a foreigner, you must stay in police-approved accommodation. I can either stay in a hotel (as long as they are indeed approved, not all are) or I can simply rent a pad (again, as long as it is approved).

All residence in China is temporary (at least for non-Chinese nationals) and there is a maximum limit of ten years of such residence placed on all foreigners (judging from posts which read such as 'I am to stay here for life', many obviously do not realise this). In the entire history of the PRC only a handful of permanent residence permits have ever been issued, and most of these were granted to (what they call) 'return home Chinese'.

The only people who require residence permits in China are those with full-time employment based in China. Non-residents (i.e., visitors) do not require a residence permit for China as they do not reside in China. If you reside in China then obviously you require a residence permit.


Dear Zero Hero,

The Z visa / infolio visa is both a work permit and a resident permit. When your employer submitted your documents, he provided the PSB with both a place of employment and a legal domicile. That legal domicile and place of employment are entered into the PSB nationwide database. If you initially arrived in China on a tourist visa, your employer should have or did indeed register you with the PSB and was given a white small sheet of paper listing of all your details including place of domicile, but obviously befert of any mention of place of employment. That is the initial "temporary resident permit" as required under Section 25 of the Chinese Civil Code governming registration of foreign aliens. Once the employer undertakes and complete a transfer of your or one's visa status, the PSB simply confirms that address in its database as your temporary residence and does not require the entry of a new residence permit.

However, Section 25 and sequiter of the Code require that when a foreigner travels in China, outside of his place of abode, he or she be registered once again, albeit temporarily, at his or her current place of sojourn. Thus, should you reside in Dalian and travel to Shanghai on business and stay in a hotel, the hotel where you stay will automatically and seamlessly registery you with the PSB. Should you reside in Dalian and travel to Shanghai on pleasure and stay with friends, your friends are required to register you within 24 hours of arrival at the local PSB. All of this information is entered into your PSB record. In many cases, this is not different that in certain Western Europe countries. Thus if you have stayed in a hotel, you have been registered automatically.

The fine for any infraction thereof is, the last time I was involved in such a matter, in the neighborhood of about RMB 1,000 per day. It can be hefty. It can result in much displeasure.
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cj750



Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 3081
Location: Beijing

PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For highly skilled foreign workers, a points system similar to Canada�s is already in place. In Shanghai, regulations introduced in 2002 set out the details of an assessment based on a
foreign applicant�s age, education, work experience, field of expertise, arranged employment, accompanying family plus bonus points for special qualifications.
Does anyone know what the point system is based on or what the special qualifications.
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Zero Hero



Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 944

PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Very Lucid Posting Reply with quote

Alex_P wrote:
Zero Hero wrote:
lowes13 wrote:
Individuals doing business in China and holding an F visa will receive a temporary residence permit which is a yellow slip of paper/form.

I have a year-long, multiple-entry F visa placed in my passport once a year as I visit the Mainland a lot from HK, but I have never needed a "temporary residence permit" (of any colour), nor do I know of anyone else ever needing, or seeing, such a thing.

Dear Zero Hero,

The Z visa / infolio visa is both a work permit and a resident permit. When your employer submitted your documents, he provided the PSB with both a place of employment and a legal domicile.

'Alex P', if you had read what you quoted, you would know that I do not work in China. As I said, "I visit the Mainland a lot from HK". That is, I go a lot to the Mainland from here in HK. As I said, "I have a year-long, multiple-entry F visa". I don't know why you mention a Z visa; I certainly did not.
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