Job Discussion Forums

Eskhellion · Joined: 12 Jun 2005 Posts: 4

I'm worried. A friend and I are taking a Toefl course to go teach English in Japan. we had it planned that we would take jobs and move there with no big deal. Problem is that i have a degree but my friend does not. My friend is 32 years old with no degree and just the Toefl course. I don't think he can get a visa. We're both Canadian. Does anyone have any idea how we should go about applying to get into the country? I'm nervous going alone and my friend is crushed. The consulate told him flat out NO because he had no degree but I have heard of people going without a degree.. Pls. any ideas would be so welcome

Alina.

AndyH · Joined: 30 Sep 2004 Posts: 417

As a Canadian, your friend should be able to get a working holiday visa, which will permit employment in a part-time job for up to six months. The visa can be renewed once. Bear in mind that although a TESOL certificate will help, some schools will be reluctant to hire someone who isn't eligible for a full-time work visa.

moot point · Joined: 22 Feb 2005 Posts: 441

He's 32. Isn't that too old for a Working Holiday visa?

Eskhellion · Joined: 12 Jun 2005 Posts: 4

I think so, but do they push rules? What about the cultural visa? Can that work??

PAULH · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 4672 Location: Western Japan

Sorry, but he's too old for the working holiday. You can only apply for the WHV up to your 31st birthday. Perhaps Glenski will chip in here, but he either needs 3 years teaching experience as an ESL teacher (to get a Humanities visa) come as a full time student, be married to a Japanese national (spouse visa) or a dependent visa (married to a person with a degree and working visa). None of these are ideal alternatives for someone wanting to work full time but they are about the only choices he has to come to Japan. A university degree is a requirement for sponsorship of a Japanese work visa, whether he likes it or not.

A cultural visa he has to have a sponsor for the visa, come here to engage in that skill or activity on a more or less full time basis. He can work on a cultural visa, but only part time and enough to support himself. his main purpose can not be to come here and teach English.

Celeste · Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 10:10 pm Post subject:

He could go as a student. He could study full time and get a part time teaching job.

PAULH · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 4672 Location: Western Japan

Just so you know, here are the Ministry regulations on work visas

http://www.mofa.go.jp/j_info/visit/visa/appendix1.html

Eskhellion · Joined: 12 Jun 2005 Posts: 4

I was just told that my friend should apply for a standard visitor's visa and work under the table. I was assured many people do this..

it strikes me as a remarkably bad idea... Has anyone got experience with this?

Eskhellion · Joined: 12 Jun 2005 Posts: 4

thanks for the link Paul. It's much clearer than anything I've read so far.

A.

Gordon · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan

If your friend works under the table, be aware that his employer may not be fair and honest. In fact, I'd say the chances would be good that they won't be fair. The employer would be hiring them illegally so what would stop them from abusing your friend's rights? Think long and hard about this first. I am sure many teachers teach illegally and end up fine, but... you never know. When you break the laws, you have to be ready to suffer the consequences. I don't know what the penalty would be if caught, someone else can tell you, however, the police here are not like they are in Canada and abusing your rights is not a priority of theirs. In fact, when you break the law, you have very few rights at all.

canuck · Joined: 11 May 2003 Posts: 1921 Location: Japan

Alina, you guys are SOL. If he doesn't have a degree and is too old for the WHV, it's better off thinking about a country where both of you could go together. If you have your heart set on Japan, then you're going to have to do it without your friend.

You're going to find it really hard to find a job working under the table.

JimDunlop2 · Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Posts: 2286 Location: Japan

Eskhellion: Indeed, I don't have to appeal to your sense of reason. You are absolutely correct -- working under the table is an incredibly bad idea!

Gordon mentioned he didn't know what would happen if you got caught -- well I can tell you quite reliably, as it has happened to several acquaintances of mine -- people I knew from church.

First of all, you will be detained. This doesn't mean you are "going to jail" per se, but in practical terms, yes you are going to jail. You will be held without bail, without being able to see a lawyer or make a phone call, and pretty much solitary confinement until your court date -- which can take anywhere from 1 to 6 months. Conditions are extremely strict by Western standards. You will be treated "well" but not with kid gloves. Our church pastor has visited a good number of people who have been detained and let's just say that he knows very few men who have not cried and been reduced to shadows of their former selves when he went to visit them. Average turnaround time (in my part of Japan) is about 2-3 months. After judgement is passed against you (for having stayed in Japan under illegal pretenses and working without a visa) you will be fined (up to 3,000,000 yen), taken to the airport in handcuffs, and deported. I've been told it's a rather humiliating experience... You will then be banned from re-entering Japan for any reason for a minimum of 5 years.

Just as an FYI, it's very easy to get caught. All it takes is a quick jaywalk to the 7-11 while a cop is watching and the next thing you know, he'll be asking to see your alien registration card. If you've been here longer than 3 months, you're screwed. There is also a website for Japanese people to report illegal workers. So don't play your music too loud and annoy your neighbours. Who knows....

As an aside, the people who I knew that were caught -- one was nabbed while doubling with his girlfriend on a bicycle (a very, very common sight here, by the way) and the other was caught when the police raided his workplace -- apparently word gets around when a place hires illegal workers...

Also, a quick adendum to what Gordon said. While it's true that many Japanese employers will abuse rights of illegal workers, the Japanese government has been fighting pretty hard to reverse this trend. Under Japanese law, even illegal workers have full protection of the labor law, and they encourage people to report any labor law violations to the labor standards office -- which, apparently will not report illegal workers to the police or immigration. Whether the authorities are to be trusted in this regard, however, is another story.

Finally, an adendum to obrtaining a student visa. The program you enter must be full-time, and the school is required to keep accurate attendance records... In other words, if you skip class every day to go to your job -- you will be found out. Also, it cannot be just any school. The school must be approved by the government as "kosher" -- that they can sponsor student visas. Not all Japanese schools can. The logistics of getting a student visa to study in Japan is not quite so simple and straight-forward.

There are no easy solutions for your friend, I'm afraid. The best one, if you intend on going somewhere and working together, would be to choose a country that doesn't require a 4-yr bachelor degree to get a working visa. Sorry to sound like a downer here, but your friend shouldn't get too many false hopes.

yamanote senbei · Joined: 28 Jun 2005 Posts: 435

Your friend doesn't necessarily need a degree. The degree requirement is a bit of a myth. Your friend can receive a visa if they have a minimum of ten years of practical experience in the field they intend to work in.

http://www.mofa.go.jp/j_info/visit/visa/appendix1.html#6

Whether you can find an employer that will employ your friend in that field without them having a degree is another matter.[/url]

JimDunlop2 · Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Posts: 2286 Location: Japan

cevanne · Joined: 03 Mar 2005 Posts: 36 Location: Osaka, Japan

Despite the 'age restriction' on the WHV your friend can still apply for one. I know someone in their 40s who got one. The restriction is a guideline. It's to encourage younger people to travel for cultural experiences and to broaden their horizons etc. Have your friend apply for a WHV. If if's not the busy season they will probably approve your friend. As long as he is coming over for 'cultural reasons'. Right? However it is only good for a year. Also, you can work more than part-time on a WHV. It's just not recommended -

The working holiday visa is not applicable to persons wishing to enter Japan to engage in full-time employment or to enroll in academic institutions. (The suggested hours of work are about 20 hours per week.)

Here's the website if you want to take a look at the whole thing

http://www.ca.emb-japan.go.jp/2004/VisaTravel/WHV.html