Job Discussion Forums

[ClaudeRains]

Moonduck

When discussing world oil prices, the standard is Texas light. Back to your toils, troll.

[Justin Trullinger]

Hey there,
There are as many standards as there are points of view- but whatever your point of view, unless you are saying that only texas light is oil, Moonravens point stands. The stuff she was talking about is, in fact, oil, and corresponds to the prices she gave.

Regards,
Justin

[snielz]

[ClaudeRains]

The point about the oil is indeed nitpicking. Nonetheless it has its point. Moonweird perpetually snarls on nearly all the ESL sites, intent on demonstrating that she is intellectually and morally better than ALL--including my mother.

Her statement that Chavez controls OPEC reflects ignorance of the world oil situation. And, no, oil is NOT like an English lit class where all points of view matter. Venezualan oil is a benchmark for...er...Venezuala...

The persistence of this point is that the maudlin Maoist in the mist is mortal--like us all.

[opticalgenius]

Ok, so here's the deal. I've been in Caracas since March. This place is INSANE.
The country is polarized into two factions, those with chavez (who claim to be 70% of the population) and those against chavez (who claim to be 70% of the population).

Frankly, it looks ro me like that there's more people against chavez than with chavez, but that's only a personal observation.

What i see, and i'm being pretty neutral about it, because if it hits the fan, i'm out of here, is that this country is being handed over to Fidel Castro and his cronies. You should see this with your own eyes, there's cubans everywhere in high government positions! (And Chavez still has the nads to call this a "sovereign" country, he likes that word, he uses it a lot). The national "reserve" soldiers, all supposedly loyal to the revolutionary process (and not to the money the gov't is paying them, of couse), all sport some nifty and comfortable looking grey uniforms, similar to those seen in military parades in Havana.

That's my main problem with this country, loyalties are not gained, they're bought. You can do almost anything you want here, if you have the right amount of cash.

There's political prisoners all over the country and news reporters and photographers are being censored or right out murdered for reporting against the government. Did you know it's illegal for a news broadcast to make negative statements about the government without government approval? It's call the "mordaza" law, and btw mordaza=gag.

People talk a lot about the corruption within the gov't, about the impending threat of a law that will prevent professionals leave the country until they've worked a mandatory 10 years in the country, and another that will make every child under 18 years of age property of the government, that is, take away any rights parents have over their children's lives. Again, this could be all talk, but there's drafts in the national assembly (the equivalent of a congress) for these laws.

Another thing i've noticed is that the Americans are talking trash about chavez, saying how concerned they are about the state of democracy in this country, and then there's chavez doing the same about the americans and their imperialism and stuff. Meanwhile, prices of oil (the main export of this country) is at a near $60US per barrel and the americans are buying it and chavez is taking the cash quietly. Some kind hatred, eh? Seems to me that's everybody's getting rich from that deal, well, everybody but the people of venezuela. Poverty is just increasing and I cannot even begin to imagine how these people live, in those chanty towns all crammed up a hill. Gunfire is a common sound in this city.

Now about a war between venezuela and colombia, i think it's unlikely but there's still a chance. You see, Chavez seems to be supplying the guerrillas with Venezuela's old arsenal (which is being replaced by russian AKs.) The guerrillas are the private militias for the druglords hiding behind the fa�ade of freedom fighters. These guys seek to de-stabilize the colombian government to install a regime for the people, which they'll never be able to do because after all the drug market is their main source of money. Colombia might react to chavez helping, but again, how are they going to prove it? How are we going to prove it?. But guerrillas usually fight for the highest bidder and we'll see who unloads more cash.

Living here is hard. The transit systems are crap, the city is overcrowded and the people aren't all that friendly. This sure isn't a tourist destination.

But otherwise, the views are nice. I love the geography of the place. I have a few friends now and they've taken me along to see some places. We'll see what happens.

Any more questions? Am I missing something? Mind you that this is my personal view and opinion. I'm just a lost canadian soul in a city that is polluted by lead. Remember, if people say "al piso!", for christ's sake, DUCK.
Cheers.

The Optical Genious.

[moonraven]

How many challenging, bright men participate in this forum?

So few as to make one wonder if only the really intellectually challenged, misogynist, racist ones stumble in here. And since most of them are clearly not EFL teachers, it makes one wonder other things, too.

[moonraven]

xxx

[moonraven]

[quote="moonraven"]And now we have opticalgenius--another guy who thinks he's an expert on a country where he has lived since March of this year.

1. The OPPOSITION to Chavez conducted the poll that indicated that he has an acceptance rate of 70.5%.

2. On the basis of WHICH data have you decided that there are more people against Chavez than for him? There are 6 million people in Caracas alone. How good is the Spanish you used to conduct those intreviews with 6 million people? Or do you only speak with English speakers--who belong to the social class that comprises the opposition?

3. Words such as cronies do not indicate neutrality--they are propaganda terms. Name one Cuban in a high government position--just ONE. And his position. Military uniforms are SUPPOSED to be uncomfortable, right? If they aren't they must be communist uniforms, huh? This is one of the silliest things I have heard yet on Dave's.

4. Loyalties are not GAINED? Did you by chance mean EARNED? I assume this is your first stint in Latin America, as you seem shocked by corruption. It's everywhere in Latin America, pal--and it did not begin when Chavez took office in 1999. What about those previous presidents who were jailed for malfeasance, and booted out of office?

5. Name one political prisoner in Venezuela. Or one journalist who was murdered by the government. How about the government prosecutor who was murdered with a blast of C-4s in his car last fall because he was handling the cases related to the coup of 2002? His name WAS Danilo Anderson, and his murder was the first in a plan that included the vice president and the president as targets. And the law that regulates media is NOT called the mordaza law--that is the nickname given it by opposition media owners.

*Why not tell us how you feel about countries where there ARE political prisoners--the US, for example? Or is that only to be considered an issue in regard to Latin America? And what about yesterday's jailing of Judith Miller, the NYTIMES reporter, for refusing to reveal her source in the outing of a CIA agent? (Admittedly, Karl Rove may be paying her a bundle to keep her mouth shut....)

6. None of the proposed laws that you mention exist--not in the National Assembly, nor in any other venue.

7. Poverty is NOT increasing in Venezuela, but decreasing. You think that the government is spending some OTHER country's petroleum revenues on the social programs in Venezuela? The Mercal markets where the government sells food at about 50% less than what it costs in the regular stores alone cost billions of Bolivares, and more revenues are being dedicated to those markets as more markets are inaugurated. And that's just one program.

Here's a link to a new article in English to clue you in to the situation in regard to poverty in the country in which you are living:

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/articles.php?artno=1494

The person who started the site, Gregory Wilpert, is from the US, is a journalist and a sociologist who has been living and writing and researching in Caracas since (I believe) the middle of 1999. He is quoted in the article. He DOES know more than you.

8. Since you "can't even imagine how the people live" in the barrios--it is clear that you have never been near one. You haven't seen squat--so don't natter on about your neutrality. You have been hanging with the opposition.

9. Where's the proof that Chavez is arming Colombian guerrillas? Since when is someone like you suddenly an expert of Latin American guerrillas?

10. Sorry life is so hard for you in Caracas. It would be hard in any large Latin American city. People are not friendly to you? Funny, I find Venezuelan folks to be the friendliest in South America. Maybe YOU aren't a friendly guy. And I am not surpised that people aren't beating your door down, given that you obviously hate their leader. And since when has Caracas EVER billed itself as a tourist destination? There are plenty of tourist destinations in Venezuela. If you don't like living in a big, crowded city (I would hate to see what you would do in Sao Paolo!) go someplace else.

Things are relative. You may think the Metro is crap in Caracas. I found it really nice to ride in an AIR-CONDITIONED subway car, since the Metro in Mexico City doesn't offer that. In all the large Latin American cities--and a fair number of smaller ones--you are going to hear gun fire and CAR ALARMS (constant in Quito, e.g.)

That's just the way it is. If you don't like it, go back to Canada. But don't smear your gringofied propaganda values in the faces of Latin Americans. That's not what makes folks feel friendly towards you. And that's what gives gringos (Canadians ARE considered gringos, btw) a bad name south of the Rio Grande/Rio Bravo.

And while you're whining and suffering, consider this: Why has Venezuela gone from 3rd place to 1st place on the Happiest Countries Survey in the past 2 years?

And for the other trolls on this forum: I will take self love over self-loathing any day. Try educating yourselves if you want to be treated as equals in even a quasi-academic discussion.

*An aside to those folks in the peanut gallery who believe that Venezuela is a peon in OPEC:
If Chavez doesn't control OPEC, why was he the leader who set the price band of 22 to 28 bucks a barrel when Clinton was president of the US?Why is it that when Chavez talks about the price of oil the futures and other markets react immediately--within minutes? Stock markets react to the forces and the people that set prices, not to peons. Chavez brought back OPEC from the dead--visited Saddam Hussein and Khaddafi and the other OPEC leaders--and brought them all to Caracas to get rolling again.
He did not, however, cause prices to top 60 bucks a barrel--everyone can thank GW Bush and his dirty war in Iraq for that.

[Luder]

For someone who takes herself for a superior intellectual, my dear Miss Moonraven, you respond to the optical genius's mention of the gag law--that that's just an opposition nickname for the law--with astonishing naivete. What government ever uses anything but euphemism to name its sinister laws? Did the Nazis call the Final Solution the Gas-the-Jews Plan? What about Bush's so-called Patriot Act? Can you refer to that act by its name without a sneer of "thy wrinkled and venomous lips," as I believe a previous poster, no doubt accurately (God forbid, for his sake, that he speaks from personal experience), called them? Oh, and since you seem to know so much about Venezuela, can you tell us the Ch�vez government name for his "mordaza" law? Does it sound as suspect as the Patriot Act?

I for one don't know much about what's going on in Venezuela, but I'm interested, and that's why I appreciated the optical genius's post. It struck me as fresh and honest, unlike a lot of the tired dogma spouted by Moonraven and her ilk.

That said, a couple of years ago on a flight from Paris to the States I saw a "60 Minutes" interview with Ch�vez. I was prepared to dislike him. After all, he goes on state TV and, like his mentor Fidel, like some of their mediocre acolytes in this forum, rambles for hours about the revolution and social justice and whatnot. What a bore! What a bully! But in the "60 Minutes" interview he turned out to be charming and witty. He was unsure of himself at first and his English sucked (he ended up speaking in Spanish almost all the time), but by the end of the brief interview he was cracking jokes and saying with a malicious chuckle that he went to Libya and Iraq to help make sure his good friends the Americans would have an uninterrupted supply of oil! In English, he even ventured to say, in the tone of a student proud of his knowledge, "I love New York!"

So, ma ch�re Mooncraven, maybe you could get a job teaching the old paratrooper some Ebonics or something. It's a long shot, I know, but maybe some of his charm and wit would rub off on you.

[moonraven]

Yes, Chavez IS charming and witty.

You are not.

And I see you also are an ageist punk. Anyone who flauts his poltical incorrectness as much as you do must be a real laugh at parties.

And your knowledge of Venezuela is limited to watching a 60 Minutes interview with Chavez--which, I believe, was in April of 2002, and where he also quoted Walt Whitman, with whom I suspect you are unfamiliar --yet you think yourself qualified to shoot off your mouth about the country.

Why not tell us what YOU know about the media law in Venezuela? You know nothing.

Try reading this, for starters:

www.venezuelanalysis.com/articles.php?artno=1349

[eo-nomine]

I read an article by Martha Harnecker about Chavez's regime in Venezuela a while ago... it is very interesting, the only problem is that it doesn't show sources. But it's worth a look: http://www.analitica.com/va/ttim/international/4088851.asp

[Luder]

So it's the "Law on the Responsibility of Radio and Television," is it? Does that not strike you, ma ch�re mademoiselle Moonraven, as more than a little bit Orwellian?

[Justin Trullinger]

I'm not touching alot of what's been said here- too mean for my taste.

But I thought I'd look at:

Frankly, it looks ro me like that there's more people against chavez than with chavez, but that's only a personal observation.


Just from a point of view of research methodology- While I appreciate your acknowledgement that it's only a personal observation, I honestly think that a personal observation, with no hard data, from the point of view of a foreigner in Caracas, is pretty low value.

Not because I don't value your opinion, but because the information behind this one is, due to forces beyond your control, limited. Because the majority of Venezuelans live in places that, quite frankly, you might not want to visit. Many, in places you would be out of your mind to visit.

But that leaves the situation that most foreigners are in- in touch with the more privileged section of society. Those who have money for English classes, those who have travelled abroad, those who go to nice bars, restaurants, and schools, and live in reasonably safe neighborhoods. These people, frankly, are exactly the ones who, in any country, reject and resist a populist leader such as Chavez. So the opinions of the people you meet are really a good reflection of the opinions of the only people you're likely to meet. But these people are in no way a representative sample.

I recomend checking out the barrios, shanty towns, communas, or whatever they're called in Venezuela. If you make it out alive, you'll have seen a very different cross section of Venezuelan society. (Social service volunteer work is how I do it- If you're teaching their kids, the people often accept you a lot better. )

Enjoy Caracas,
Justin




PS I am a bright, challenging man, and an EFL teacher. You'll have to take my word for it, but it's true!

[moonraven]

Martha Harnecker is a very sharp, well-respected woman with a huge string of publications, many of which are available in English. She is also in her late 60s, so of course would be immediately dismissed as not knowing her butt from a hole in the ground by the misogynists/ageists here on Dave's. In 2003 her book about Chavez--Un hombre, un pueblo was published--it is essentially a transcript of 13 hours of interviews that she made with Chavez after the failed April 2002 coup.

A week or so ago Aleida Guevara's bio of Chavez was published--based on interviews that she made in February of last year.

Richard Gott's (British) book, In the Shadow of the Liberator, is still very much worth reading as well.

[eo-nomine]

Is there an English version of Un hombre, un pueblo? I looked on several websites and I can't seem to find one. By the way, I was randomly browsing yesterday and I found this interesting interview (in French) of M. Harnecker.