Job Discussion Forums

[Chris_Crossley]

I would like to cite the following two paragraphs from a contract offered to me by a private language school.

[EnglishBrian]

My old boss half heartedly put that that clause about not opening your own school in town for 1 or 2 years after the end of the contract too. I'm pretty sure he got it from IH where he used to work. Mind you didn't stop it happening.

I'm no lawyer but I think this sort of clause is completely illegal under European Union law, and it's all thanks to football.

The famous Bosmann ruling (anyone who knows football's heard of it) was about aspects of contracts (in his case the club being able to demand a transfer fee from his next employer even though his contract with them was up) which applied beyond the expiration of the contract and the EU ruled this was a restriction on the right to work and therefore illegal.

[Ben Round de Bloc]

[seanaway]

If the school is so unsure of the value of its service to the students, then sod 'em. I'd move at the drop of a hat if I were in a poorly paid school and offered something better.

Why should anyone work for a company if the pay does not reflect the value of the service provided by the teacher?

[moonraven]

I have been in the middle on this issue.

I was director for 4 years of a language school in Mexico which is part of a network of franchises that totals almost 100 throughout the country. The organization developed its own method, created its own books, tapes, etc. and prohibited that it teachers use the method in another context OR work for another school. When teachers leave, they are routinely blacklisted with other schools, including a couple of other groups outside the organization, in order to prevent their usuing the method.

That blacklisting policy led to a lot of resentment on the part of teachers, and the last year that I was director, a teacher who had been training to become the DOS left to start a school--and took his brother and another teacher with him. They actively stated that they were using the method of the school where they had been working, and were charging half what we charged. As there was clearly a demand in the community, they didn't hurt us THAT much, but we did lose a few students and I am sure that new students who would normally have enrolled with us enrolled with them.

The school's owner was very angry over the whole deal, but insisted on raising our tuition so that it was probably the highest of any school in the group of franchises--and it was the wrong moment to do that. That foolish decision was one of the reasons that I decided that we could no longer work together.

Of course teachers continue to use methods that work well. In the nearly 7 years that have passed since I left that school, I have kept the best elements of the method, and have scrapped the rest--replacing them with more pedagogically innovative techniques.

I would have to say that the resentment created by that particular organization with its intimidation and blacklisting practices ultimately cost it a lot of good teachers--in many cases, they lost the best teachers they had.

[31]

[Justin Trullinger]

In the school where I'm working, I haven't signed, nor asked anybody else to sign, a contract restricting ANYTHING they might do after finishing their term of employment...it just wouldn't seem right, reasonable, or for that matter enforceable.

On a related note though, what do you guys think about "stealing" students?

I've seen this several times since I've been teaching; either a teacher who offers to take on students privately, at a discount, or one time a teacher left a school I was at and set up a competing business, with all his students from the previous school. How does this strike you, from a moral, business, or practical point of view?

Justin

[31]

Do it to the TEFL mills before they do it to you but by then they probably already have, so get your revenge.

[lajzar]

Round here, contracts often say you cant work for a rival in the same city, or start your own company within the year.

Given the incredible legal barriers to starting your own company, that probably isnt an issue anyway.

[Cleopatra]

IN Saudi Arabia, and possibly in some of the other Gulf states too, when you leave your job and wish to take up employment with another institution in Saudi Arabia within a year of your last contract, the Saudi Embassy demands to see what's called a "No Objection Cert (NOC)" before issuing you with a visa. No NOC=no visa=no job. The NOC is given by your former employer, and it states that they have no objection to you finding work elsehwere in the Kingdom.

Trouble is, employers are under no obligation to provide a NOC, and many do not, especially if you leave against their wishes even having fulfilled your contract. To me it seems really unfair that an employer can control you for a year after you have completed your contract with them, but there's not much any of us can do about it. There are rumours the Saudis are going to do away with the NOC but like a lot of things here I'll believe it when - and if - I see it. These restrictions apply to all professions, BTW, not just teaching.

[Sheep-Goats]

In some countries (Taiwan) an employer could get your visa revoked for violating contract clauses whether or not you're still working for them, including those "don't work within three miles of here after you quit" ones -- but it's not likely.

[31]

They try that trick in Turkey. You will not work stay in Istanbul or you will go to the police. Spoken by some MOD EDIT ET manager but it is only a pathetic threat.

[31]

Not just manager jobs, teacher jobs too.

[Sheep-Goats]

[Justin Trullinger]

I know, I know. And I've seen it done to lots of schools where I just thought, "What goes around comes around."

But I've also worked with teachers who seem to abhor such behaviour. (Almost all directors, owners, etc, abhor such behaviour IN OTHERS, or course, but my experience is that they often aren't the type to hesitate if the roles were reversed...)

But the thing is, without wanting to sound smug, I am now working for a school that really doesn't seem to merit such treatment. I've been working here for two years, and late last year, have started trying to run it. And about once or twice a week, one of the teachers comes to me, saying that a student has suggested a "private arrangement." As long as they're coming to me about this, I'm not worried, but I just wondered how widespread this was out there.

My theory is that if you treat teachers decently, pay them well, at least by local standards, and try to be helpful and responsive to their concerns, you won't get too much of this kind of thing. But I don't know if it's ever been tried before.

Regards,
Justin