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BKC/EF/Others?
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Katyusha



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 43
Location: UAE

PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't reveal my sources, but from what I know, it came from the horse's mouth! Laughing
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Nexus



Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 189
Location: Moscow

PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Katyusha wrote:
I can't reveal my sources, but from what I know, it came from the horse's mouth! Laughing


Can you expand on that?
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maruss



Joined: 18 Mar 2003
Posts: 1145
Location: Cyprus

PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:52 am    Post subject: what's the best way?? Reply with quote

As I'm sure all of you who live there will agree,it's impossible for a foreigner to understand how things are in Russia without experiencing them,especially the corruption and bureaucracy and the reasons why few people reveal their actual earnings etc!!Things like employee protection and western style institutions are either non-existent,or at best still at a hybrid stage and unless you can accept this,you will have a rude awakening!As I wrote before, these schools offer just a way getting in with visas and basic accomodation-try arranging those on your own!!In my opinion, if they were more honest with their recruiting ads and said the salary is adequate for a starter to get by on but not more,they would be doing themselves a big service,rather than misleading people by promising'middle-class' etc.I also strongly disagree with them expecting unknown people to share appartments and would not accept it-unless of course she was 20 years younger and very friendly etc!!But seriously though, privacy and space are sacred, and come home wanting only sleep. sweet sleep!!
Of course freelancing is much more lucrative, but as our other friend rightly said,the risks are also much greater, especially at the beginning when you don't have a network of reliable students to pay yiur bills from etc!
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Katyusha



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 43
Location: UAE

PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Nexus,

If you still work at BKC, you can ask the general director of the company yourself. Twisted Evil
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steven_gerrard



Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 155

PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They aren't owned by the same person but it's safe to say that they're owned by people who know each other rather well.
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canucktechie



Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 343
Location: Moscow

PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
They aren't owned by the same person but it's safe to say that they're owned by people who know each other rather well.


The same could be said for the computer business in Silicon Valley, or any particular kind of business in any particular place.
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Nexus



Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 189
Location: Moscow

PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Katyusha wrote:
Dear Nexus,

If you still work at BKC, you can ask the general director of the company yourself. Twisted Evil


Well, I don't work at BKC but yes I do know who the owners are and their relationship to each other.

I've realised my earlier post may have sounded like I was suggesting one person owned both companies (not the case). My mistake if that was the thing that was getting your back up.

Still, let's not get our knickers in a twist over it, it makes no odds anyway.
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BELS



Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 402
Location: Moscow

PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Katyusha, what's bugging you so much about Nexus's comments. I am curious, it doesn,t bother me, and perhaps nobody else. Let us know your reasons. In fact I have a few other rumours I could mention , that shocks me, coming from Russians and the native English community of large establishments. I dare not say too much until I find more evidence myself.But I do fear their is a Monopoly in Moscow in regards to EFL
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steven_gerrard



Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 155

PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BKC and Language Link have a monopoly on EFL in Moscow? Don't make me laugh- there are tons of other schools in the city and room for a lot more for those who can pitch it right.
Out of the thousands of EFL teachers in Russia, LL and BKC employ no more than a couple of hundred between them- hardly cause to call the Monopolies and Mergers Commission, is it?
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BELS



Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 402
Location: Moscow

PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

steven_gerrard wrote:
BKC and Language Link have a monopoly on EFL in Moscow? Don't make me laugh- there are tons of other schools in the city and room for a lot more for those who can pitch it right.
Out of the thousands of EFL teachers in Russia, LL and BKC employ no more than a couple of hundred between them- hardly cause to call the Monopolies and Mergers Commission, is it?


That is not what I stated, I will say more when I am ready. After all it is a public forum. No! not two schools, , but perhaps with a few more who have the capabilitie of inviting into Russia
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steven_gerrard



Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 155

PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BELS wrote:
That is not what I stated, I will say more when I am ready. After all it is a public forum.


Very cloak and dagger! But safe to say if Russians know and "the native English community of large establishments" then it's not much of a secret- please do reveal all, evidence or not....

Sorry for misunderstanding you about the monopoly- when you stated "their" I thought you were referring to LL and BKC.
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Wonderwall



Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 11
Location: The Long and Winding Road

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BELS wrote:
Katyusha, what's bugging you so much about Nexus's comments. I am curious, it doesn,t bother me, and perhaps nobody else. Let us know your reasons. In fact I have a few other rumours I could mention , that shocks me, coming from Russians and the native English community of large establishments. I dare not say too much until I find more evidence myself.But I do fear their is a Monopoly in Moscow in regards to EFL


I've watched this forum for some time now and I notice that everytime some 'innocent' asks a simple question about working in Moscow, it ends up with a a few of the usual suspects slagging off BKC/LL et al rather than helping the 'naive' person, who asked the question in the first place about which was better, with some useful information rather than merely posting irrelevent 'facts'/rumours/conspiracy theories which must make people outside Russia think that everyone working here is either paranoid, mad (i.e. crazy) or just downright pissed off about something and everything.

So getting back to Jonathan's original question about " but I would like sufficient time to study the language and do some sightseeing, and not spend 100% of my time teaching English. From what I've heard from some of you BKC makes you work very hard with little time for study or traveling."

To be honest Jon, the reason any school, anywhere in the world, gives people English teaching jobs is primarily to teach English and not to subsidise their desire to sightsee, learn a language, or indeed take up the balalaika.

The sad fact is that any school that you apply to will probably expect you to put in a lot of hours not just in the classroom but also in preparation, attending development sessions, and (perhaps even) attending teachers' meetings.

The reason for this is that Russian students are quite rightly very demanding of the quality of teaching that they receive. They find it quite bizarre that anyone can be 'qualified' to teach English after 4 weeks when teachers here are expected to go to pedagogical university for 3 or more years.

They also know far more about the ins and outs of English grammar than 95% of the 'teachers' working in Moscow; which is one of the reasons that so may teachers are complained about at BKC and I would presume in other shools as well.

If you are nearly/newly qualified then Russia isn't really the place to come to unless you are prepared to forgo your travelling experience and treat your employment here as what it is, a job; and a not very highly paid one at that by 'Western' standards.

As for talk of the 'freelance' teachers. Most of them arrived with BKC et al irrespective of how much they slag them off, these schools do provide an entry point to Russia and a 'support' system while you are here, which is essential if you have never been here before. However, as I said, BKC et al do extort a high price for this. It's not uncommon for teachers to be out and 'on the road' from 7am until 11pm if they have a split shift and are expected to teach at various locations around Moscow.

Oh, did I mention the Russian winter? Looks great in photos, but when your trudging your way around Moscow all day in subzero temperatures the novelty kind of wears of after a month or so.

You should also be aware that the kind of flats that are supplied by schools here are somewhat old and are usually shared. Circa Great Patriotic War at worst and 70s kitsch at best. They also have no living room, so most people socialise in the kitchen. That is not to say that Russians themselves live in such old fashioned surroundings. However, schools here refuse to pay the going rate for decent places and find it strange that so many teachers hate their apartments (which after all are provided 'free'!)

So my advice is to think very carefully before committing to a school, not just in Russia, but anywhere. You haven't even got your CELTA yet, so be advised that in order to make the 'big bucks' that people often talk about as being earned by freelancers here - you will have to put in your time and concentrate on the job during your first year or go the way of most of the people that arrive here: burn out, leave, get fired or if you're lucky... survive; and if you still like Moscow, then you are about ready to cut the umbilical and then ...
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Texan1975



Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 3
Location: Dallas, TX

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:46 pm    Post subject: Opened Can of Worms! Reply with quote

To all, thanks for all the colorful inputs to this thread, I never thought I would get such a great discussion going. BELS, thanks for the great input and advice, I'll definitely take it to heart. Let me ask all of you, what is your opinion on the Baltics or Ukraine? I'd be nearly as interested in teaching in those countries as well.
As far as your concerns, BELS, I'm not too worried about the living conditions or environment. I served on active duty in the US Navy for nearly 7 years (still in Reserve) and went through some tough living arrangements, and lived through two Connecticut winters, though you're right in replying that they never were as bad as Moscow usually is in the winter. I'm simply fascinated by Russia and have always wanted to spend some time there. The lack of great pay doesn't really concern me either, I never thought this would be easy or highly lucrative. I'm planning on doing this for one or two years, then return to the US to pursue graduate school. Thanks again for all your great comments. To BELS, it sounds like you're especially knowledgeable about life in Russia, if you're honestly telling me not to go there, please elaborate a little more, I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks, Jonathan Very Happy

"Eternal peace lasts only until the next war" Russian proverb
My favorite Russian quotable
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Texan1975



Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 3
Location: Dallas, TX

PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 12:00 am    Post subject: One more thing Reply with quote

One thing I didn't think to mention, I have two years experience teaching at the college level (military academy). Nothing to do with EFL (navigation) but still the experience is there. Does anyone think this will enhance my chances or won't affect them at all. Thanks, Jonathan
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maruss



Joined: 18 Mar 2003
Posts: 1145
Location: Cyprus

PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:37 am    Post subject: At least someone told him the truth! Reply with quote

Long hours, split-shifts, tiring , stressful environment, grotty accomodation and no privacy,and poor pay at that!Surely for these jobs to be advertised so often, there must be a reason-either business is expanding at an incredible rate-or, as is the case, the conditions cause the staff turnover to be so high!But like the postings said, they DO offer a way to get into Russia,which is no mean achievement, believe you me!Just try applying for a visa and invitation on your own and you will soon find out what I mean,let alone finding an appartment when you ge there etc!!One of my main gripes is this shared appartment thing-if I come over with someone else or volunteer to share with somebody who I know I am compatible with, the o.k. but otherwise,I like my space and privacy, especially after working 15 hours per day in all kinds of weather etc!!
I hate to say it, but as so many other people agree with me after experiencing the place themselves,including good Russian friends, the country is still as rotten as it has been for centuries and exploitation, graft and corruption are the order of the day there-in fact it is becoming worse!
However, you can make some wonderful friends and experience what is undeniably one of the worlds most fascinating countries with unique cultural and historical sites,so perhaps it's best to see it that way and not let the bad thiungs get to you TOO much!Otherwise better try somewhere else!Once it starts to get you down,it;s time to leave-run , comrade run, the whole world will be behind you and probably wondering why you went there in the first place!
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