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teach2005
Joined: 05 Jun 2005 Posts: 3 Location: Taipei
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Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 8:04 am Post subject: The story of my year with KOJEN |
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I must preface this by saying that I had intended to post this in the Job Information Journal due to its length. If you are intending to work in preschool in Taiwan or for Kojen please read it!!
This is a factual account of my year with Kojen. I will briefly tell you who I am. I�m a certified elementary teacher who has worked with many ESL students in the U.S. I decided to teach in Taiwan to gain more experience.
A recruitment company found me the job with Kojen. When I first arrived in Taipei, I naturally felt a bit overwhelmed at being in a completely foreign country. Kojen did not offer any kind of orientation on Taipei for new foreign teachers, and I didn�t have much time to get comfortable on my own, as I started work almost immediately. During my first meeting with a Kojen recruiter I was told that, after reviewing my qualifications, preschool was the best place for me. Though skeptical about teaching such young children, I happily accepted and was given a �training schedule.� However, with the exception of observing current teachers, the �training� did not have much to offer. On the days that I didn�t observe I was put in a tiny room to watch videos of previous workshops that Kojen had conducted. Things like curriculum overview and introduction to Kojen�s internal structure made no appearance. Just five days into my �training� I was told that one of the preschools needed a teacher immediately. When I asked if the fact that my work permit had not been processed yet was a problem, I was assured it wasn�t. I was placed at the preschool in Shilin. The director immediately made me feel very welcome and did her best to make me comfortable while I jumped into teaching. She provided me with thorough explanations of the curriculum and the schedule I would have. I wondered why the head office couldn�t have presented some of this to me earlier. I had to start working very quickly so the director did not have time to tell me as much as she wanted. Despite that I finally felt at home and she quickly became a good friend and ally.
I started teaching on August 27th and the first day of the new semester was September 1st. On that day I was in the middle of teaching the alphabet when a fellow foreign teacher rushed into my classroom telling me to run. I was confused and stood like a deer in headlights. Obviously my reaction was very delayed. He quickly pulled me out of my room. The following happened all at once. I saw some teachers running out the back door. There were several men tramping up the stairs. There were flashes of light as our picture was taken. I could hear them saying, �Stop teacher!� Those of us that did not escape were escorted downstairs. The director and I exchanged glances and I searched her face for an answer to what was going on. The men were foreign affairs police and they had accompanied officials from the government who were conducting raids on schools. We were taken out of the preschool to the police station and asked to make a statement. The reality is that on October 1, 2003 the Ministry of Education declared it illegal for foreigners to teach English in preschools (ages 3-6). Like many laws there are several loop holes that all preschools take advantage of. (For further information regarding this regulation you can search any ESL abroad website). Kojen did not inform me of this situation and so I was left to fend for myself. Thinking quickly, I told them that I was only observing and had not taught yet. I also said I wasn�t being paid. Needless to say we were all pretty shaken up at the end of the day.
The following day the owner of Kojen, Mr. Hou, and his son, Jason, came to the school. At no point did we hear an apology. We were told that it was okay and that we weren�t in any trouble. We were assured that nothing could happen to us personally. The truth was that nothing could happen to the teachers whose work permits were valid and processed. These teachers have work permits that are attached to various kids or adult branches of Kojen, not the preschools. Some teachers don�t even have a permit for the building they work in. However, having no work permit at all, I alone was in danger of being deported. After the incident, Mr. Hou patted me on the back for being �so smart and saying all the right things.� I was told that my work permit would be in my hand soon and that there was nothing to worry about. Soon after that a more secure door was installed at the school with an alarm to warn us when to run. These raids happened a few other times in the following months. Otherwise, things settled down and I was really enjoying my job. I bonded with my students and had a great relationship with my Chinese co-teacher.
One afternoon in December I was called into the head office. I sat down at a table with my director, Mr. Hou, his son, and some other administrative people. They told me that they had talked to their lawyers and it was no longer safe for me to stay in Shilin. Apparently they thought the government would come back looking for me in particular. I was to be removed in two weeks. I wondered why they had allowed me to teach for almost four months. My director requested that I be allowed to finish the semester and was denied. When I asked why this had to happen I was met with the response, �better not to offend while we try and work out this problem.�
I was devastated to leave my students and a school I had come to really love. My co-teacher and I had a very hard time telling the children. Many of them were very upset. Despite their age they understood that I did not want to leave but that I had no choice. We also had to write a letter to the parents. I discovered that it was suggested the parents be told, �She misses her boyfriend and wants to go back to America.� I made sure a more truthful letter was sent to them. It took many meetings to work out what would happen with my job. One week before I had to leave Shilin I was called back to the head office. Mr. Hou asked me how things were. I told him that it had been very difficult to explain this situation to the children and parents. He acted very surprised and said, �What? You told the parents? You can�t tell the parents in a letter. That is evidence! You should tell them it is something personal.� I told him I thought that was ridiculous and all of this was Kojen�s fault not mine. Later, they told me that I would substitute teach at the Gongguan preschool for a while before spending January in the office helping to write curriculum. Following that, they proposed that I teach in some other departments and that my contract end on September 10th instead of the original August 17th. I had to explain to them that being a teacher I needed to go back to the US much earlier than that to secure a job. Basically I had to fight to get what I wanted. After I complained I was told that, in fact, there would be a new preschool class opening at the Gongguan school after Chinese New Year. Mr. Hou asked that I go to the hospital to get my health check immediately so that I could apply for the work permit for that school. At that point I only had a few days left with my students. When I said �no� he was appalled. Someone else present had to explain to him that it was a sensitive time and that I could do it the next week.
In the days to follow I met the new teacher who would replace me. She was literally fresh off the plane. To my astonishment they were asking her to start working without her work permit. Kojen�s decision to remove me left the director, parents, children, and me very unhappy. Obviously they were much more concerned with their own image.
A few days before the Chinese New Year holiday, the manager of the Gongguan school called to tell me only two students had signed up for the new class. It would not be opening. The administration had been aware of this for a while, but no one had thought to tell me. I found myself back at the head office asking them what they were going to do this time. The head office has a preschool as well and they told me that a teacher there had to go home due to sickness. The director had been teaching the class. I accepted the position hoping that I could finish out the year on a good note. Only after I accepted the position did I learn Kojen had promised the job to another teacher before me. They had no other place to put me and therefore brushed off this other teacher. So I proceeded to get work permit number three.
Recently I attended the Shilin school graduation in order to say goodbye to my students. Several teachers from the school told me that the students still asked about me. At the end of the ceremony one boy that I was particularly close with came to find me. When I saw him start to cry I picked him up and reassured him as much as I could. I saw Jason Hou coming towards us. He looked at me and said, �Wow the kids still remember you huh?� I was speechless. I managed a very firm, �Of course they do� and he quickly walked away.
This is only one example of how clueless the administration is. They are in the business of educating people and yet they treat their employees like disposable items. Yes, teachers come and go and that is the nature of the business. However, they never acknowledged the fact that I endured more than I should have. I was treated more like a thorn in their side than a dedicated teacher who stuck it out. They need to take a serious look at the way they treat people. Over and over I kept hearing, �This has never happened before.� Well it did happen and they better realize it is going to keep happening if teachers are not informed and asked to work without permits. The raids are only going to increase as the Ministry of Education and Labor Department crack down on offenders. I should have been removed from the Shilin preschool immediately after that day. Any decent company would apologize for putting an employee in personal danger and would compensate that person for the mistakes they made. After all I only did my job when they asked me to.
Even as I prepare to leave I have had complications. There was talk of holding my pay in case I didn�t complete my final week. You would think that my character as an individual would speak for itself. I am a teacher and I have chosen that as my career. Leaving early would only hurt the students and the director who are the people that made this worthwhile.
My final months were very positive and I owe that all to the people I worked with at the head office preschool. The director is an experienced and very knowledgeable man who cares deeply for the students and the well being of the school. The teachers are excellent and many of them plan to stay another year. If the administration appreciated their directors and teachers more, many of the problems I, as well as others, experienced would never arise. My wish is that this situation is not repeated. I know for a fact that Kojen does not inform their new preschool teachers of this situation until after the contract is signed, or in my case it is left for the director to explain. I have seen countless examples that I haven�t even mentioned that lead me to say that this company is on a downward spiral. I�m not the first to say so and I certainly won�t be the last. If Kojen wants to stay at the top of this market they need to stop obsessing about saving money or saving face and show some regard for the people whose hard work makes their company successful. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2056
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Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:49 am Post subject: Re: The story of my year with KOJEN |
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Your story was an interesting one and I am sure that you are not the only one who has faced this sort of problem. I agree with you that schools should tell teachers of the situation involving kindergarten teaching and let the teachers choose whether or not they want to take that position. I disagree with the school philosophy of 'we know that nothing will happen so you needn't worry about it.' If that is the way that they choose to run their business then that is their right, but I believe that it is the teachers right to choose if they want to get involved or not.
What I don't understand is how you ended up teaching in a preschool without knowing that it was illegal? I assume from the content of your story that you started work there on August 27, 2004. As you yourself pointed out, the fact that foreigners have not been permitted to teach kindergarten has been well publicised since October 2003. Many reports about this have been made in the local newspapers (available online) and every single message board that mentions teaching in Taiwan. Just about every foreigner in Taiwan knows that it is illegal, and it seems from your story that even your fellow co-teachers knew that it was illegal.
So I guess there are two possibilities here:
1. You legitimately didn't know that teaching kindergarten in Taiwan was illegal.
Did you not know that it was illegal before you took the job (or soon after you took the job), and if so how come? Did you research the topic of teaching in Taiwan, and the company that you were working for? I assume that you didn't as if you did then you would have found the truth. So assuming that you didn't do any research about this, well this begs the question why not? If you didn't take the time to research the position then why should the school take the time to tell you as you haven't shown a lot of concern?
2. You knew that it was illegal to teach in kindy, either before you took the job or soon afterwards.
In that case you chose to continue working there even though you knew that the job was illegal. If that is the case then wouldn't you agree that your choice absolves some of the responsibility of the school?
From your story it seems that you chose to continue working at the school even after the raids, and therefore you chose to accept that you were working in an illegal position. If that is the case then it seems that you are as responsible for your circumstances as the school is. I assume that you were collecting money for your work there, and therefore it seems to me that the school no longer has to provide for you should there be repercussions from your decision.
I understand your reasons for posting here, and I certainly sympathize with any teachers who are employed in a illegal position after receiving a promise that their job would be fully legal. I don't include kindergarten teachers in this group as it has been widely publicised that these positions are illegal, and anyone who chooses to work as a kindergarten teacher in Taiwan is doing so either because they have failed to do any research, or because they have chosen to work illegally regardless! |
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Taylor
Joined: 24 Oct 2003 Posts: 384 Location: Texas/Taiwan
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Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Teach2005,
Thanks for posting. You should definitely post this info on the Job Information Journal.
Best wishes. So are you going to stay in Taiwan?
Sincerely,
Taylor
Kaohsiung |
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teach2005
Joined: 05 Jun 2005 Posts: 3 Location: Taipei
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Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 10:27 am Post subject: |
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In response to both postings, I am now back in my country and will not return to Taiwan for work purposes. As I mentioned I intended to post this in the Job Information Journal but that part of Dave's website is being fazed out. I did not, Mr. Griswald, post this to justify my choices or behavior in the past year. I was naive to trust my recruiter only and to not do research myself. Circumstances in my personal life made it difficult for me to do much of anything in the months leading up to my departure from the US. I stayed with my job because I wanted to complete my contract and I truly wanted to live in Taiwan for a year. I don't think that my accepting the position and deciding to stay in the school warranted all of the things that happened to me. I don't know who you are or what you do in Taiwan but it sounds to me like you're forgetting something. Taiwan is not the center of the world and every webite does NOT explain this situation explicitly. I wrote this so that other people may be informed. Not for you to pass judgement on my decisions. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2056
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Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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teach2005 wrote: |
I wrote this so that other people may be informed. Not for you to pass judgement on my decisions. |
And I picked the valuable piece of information from you post and reiterated that. Schools that employ foreigners illegally on the promise of employing them legally should be exposed, and I go to lengths to ensure this happens.
The rest of your post was your personal opinion about the ownership of the school, their management, and basically the way that they do things. This was your opinion and as such as is perfectly valid (even though I don't agree with a lot of it). How then is someone elses opinion of your situation somehow less valid? Is it a case of if someone doesn't agree with you then their opinion is invalid? Maybe this is why you don't seem to have had a very positive experience in Taiwan.
teach2005 wrote: |
I was naive to trust my recruiter only and to not do research myself. |
So from what you write it would appear that you came to Taiwan based solely upon the information of a recruiter - someone who has a vested financial interest in you coming here. It seems that you chose not to research life in Taiwan nor the employer that you were going to work for. Now that is your right, but surely it is unreasonable to then turn around and complain that you weren't aware of certain aspects of living here (such as kindergarten work being illegal).
Surely taking on a job and signing a one year contract is something that most people would take seriously and look into. If you choose to sign a contract without doing any research then I can't understand how you feel justified in making a complaint against the employer who employed you. This just make sense to me. You are an adult, so surely you need to accept some responsibility for your decisions in life.
teach2005 wrote: |
Circumstances in my personal life made it difficult for me to do much of anything in the months leading up to my departure from the US. |
Well that is surely only your concern and cannot be used as an excuse against the school. Accepting a job and moving overseas are two big and important steps in anyones life and it astounds me that people do this without even doing a small amount of research first. If you weren't able to do the research then possibly it would have been prudent to postpone your arrival.
teach2005 wrote: |
I stayed with my job because I wanted to complete my contract and I truly wanted to live in Taiwan for a year. I don't think that my accepting the position and deciding to stay in the school warranted all of the things that happened to me. |
In my opinion staying with the school for your contract term would have been the right thing to do. My point in mentioning this in my earlier post was to point out the fact that if you chose to stay working at the school after you were made perfectly aware that it was not a legal position, then you have to accept some degree of responsibility for your illegal actions from that point on.
teach2005 wrote: |
I don't know who you are or what you do in Taiwan but it sounds to me like you're forgetting something. |
I am just a foreign teacher who has been in Taiwan for a while and who is just a bit sick of seeing schools, recruiters, and teachers who can't accept responsibilities for their own actions. We all make mistakes, and if we were all just a bit more honest about the mistakes that we make, rather than trying to lay the blame on others, I am sure that Taiwan (and possibly the world) would be a better place to live.
teach2005 wrote: |
Taiwan is not the center of the world and every webite does NOT explain this situation explicitly. |
Every single website that has anything to do with teaching English in Taiwan does have some information about the fact that teaching in a kindergarten in Taiwan is illegal for foreigners. I am not kidding - every single one. So, the suggestion that you couldn't find this information seems quite extraordinary! |
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Ki
Joined: 23 Jul 2004 Posts: 475
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Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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I cannot speak for Kojen personally,
I do not blame anyone who has unwillingly found an "illegal" job here. Yes, kindergarten jobs are illegal but with the amibuity of the law and its frequency to change who knows what is going on?
Teach, I have sympathy for you. I find this to be a common issue in Taiwan. Don't expect management to tell you anything at all until it neets to be done, or is too late. They will never acknowledge that you have been good unless it is preceded by an 'except by...' Things like them being more concerned about their own immage are a reality here. What you describe seems to be the norm rather than any real exception.
Forget about your love for your students. I returned to say 'hi' to mine and all of the other teachers were amazed. Apparently it had never happened before. But I missed them.
Clark, what would you suggest to a teacher who has already started working somewhere illegal (ie a preschool) but who is obligated under contractual obligations to keep working or forfeit things like bond money and other subsidies against the teacher? I did note your opinion about sticking with the school for the contract term. This is a difficult situation and difficult to advise in either direction. I'm just not sure about what degree of responsibility should occur. It is a diificult possition. I would think that the teacher should be resolved of all responsibilities, paid in full, and not required to fullfill any further contractual obligations. I'm sure this is open to any disagreement out there.
It seems like a bad situation with maybe too much wrong or outdated information interfering with the more up-to-date information.
If okay though. I was informed that I don't need to run. I have enough time to just walk. Seriously. I was told this in my interview when I asked about police raids. All schools believe their own lies.
My appologies for passing judgement. Whether intended or otherwise, you did post here expecting it.
Quote: |
I am just a foreign teacher who has been in Taiwan for a while and who is just a bit sick of seeing schools, recruiters, and teachers who can't accept responsibilities for their own actions. We all make mistakes, and if we were all just a bit more honest about the mistakes that we make, rather than trying to lay the blame on others, I am sure that Taiwan (and possibly the world) would be a better place to live.
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I always make mistakes. No one is perfect. Hopefully what I have said was an opinion rather than a mistake but if not please let me know. It seems to me to be one of those you should have know better deals but they don't come along that often. I know that there is a procedure for dealing with this crap but most of us are unaware of a lot of this, despte efforts otherwise. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2056
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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:34 am Post subject: |
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Ki wrote: |
I do not blame anyone who has unwillingly found an "illegal" job here. Yes, kindergarten jobs are illegal but with the amibuity of the law and its frequency to change who knows what is going on? |
I think that everyone would agree with you on this.
For a school to suggest that a position is fully legal when it isn't is clearly wrong. I know that in some cases the school legitimately doesn't know the legalities or rather illegalities, but that is their problem not the teachers. If a school is going to employ a foreigner then they should make it their business to familiarize themselves with relevant laws.
Equally, teachers should do the same.
From my point of view the OP's post should be seen more as a warning about not researching work in Taiwan, than a warning against Kojen.
Ki wrote: |
Clark, what would you suggest to a teacher who has already started working somewhere illegal (ie a preschool) but who is obligated under contractual obligations to keep working or forfeit things like bond money and other subsidies against the teacher? |
The first thing is that no contract can override the law. So a contract based upon a position within a preschool is pretty much invalid. That doesn't mean that the teacher can just walk out on the job, but it does mean that mediation through the CLA would most likely see the contract nullified. So my advice to teachers who find themselves unwittingly working illegally is to take action. There are plenty of legal jobs, and the CLA would help you in this regard.
Kojen is a fully legal employer, and teachers employed to teach the older kids are working entirely legally. The problem is only with the kindergarten program. In the case of a Kojen teacher, I would recommend speaking to management and requesting either a release from the contract, or a transfer to a legal position with the older kids. If they don't play ball then make a visit to the CLA.
As I have said before though, I don't personally have a lot of sympathy for teachers who end up working illegally in either kindergartens or government schools as there is a lot of information out there about the illegality of these positions.
On the other hand, I have total sympathy for a teacher who is promised an ARC that never transpires, or is given an ARC from another company but not told this. These are the teachers who need our full support, as they were misled and there was little that they could have done to have prevented the circumstances they find themselves in. Again, researching schools and recruiters can be a good way to avoid ending up in these positions as the word will often be out about these types of companies. Check out www.buxiban.com and you will see what I mean.
Ki wrote: |
I would think that the teacher should be resolved of all responsibilities, paid in full, and not required to fullfill any further contractual obligations. |
I am confident that the CLA would agree with and enforce such a judgement in cases where the teacher could show that they were an innocent victim.
In cases of preschool or government school positions this could prove difficult to prove as there is so much information out there about these positions being illegal. |
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Aristotle

Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1388 Location: Taiwan
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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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The fact is that most all teachers on Taiwan are working illegally in one form or another. This can and will happen again until the occupational government quits being an occupational government.
In this case the Kojen / Elsi administration had not paid the required bribes and they got leaned on by the government to pay up or else. They paid and the problem went away. The teachers were replaced as a face saving measure and in the end only the teachers and their students suffer any real loss.
On Taiwan all non Chinese are deemed "foreigners" and are unwanted and unwelcome by the occupational government on Taiwan. Non Chinese are treated as cultural pollution in the eyes of the current government even if you were born here. The message that the government on Taiwan is sending you is quite clear (If your are not Chinese you are not wanted!).
The best you can do in a situation like this is to do your job as a teacher.
You can start by adding some new material to your current lesson plan.
Corruption Fighters� Tool Kit
Welcome to Taiwan!
A. |
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Incredible Ape
Joined: 10 Jun 2004 Posts: 118 Location: Witness Protection Programme
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Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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Non Chinese are treated as cultural pollution in the eyes of the current government even if you were born here. The message that the government on Taiwan is sending you is quite clear (If your are not Chinese you are not wanted!). |
Absolute rubbish. I'm in Taiwan. What planet are you on? |
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Forumosa Maoman

Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 22 Location: Lotus Hill
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Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:08 am Post subject: Thanks very much! |
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Thanks for your account of your experience. The more stories like these come to light, the sooner there can be positive resolution. (Aren't I the eternal optimist! ) |
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teach2005
Joined: 05 Jun 2005 Posts: 3 Location: Taipei
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Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:14 am Post subject: |
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Thanks! As I mentioned before, my sincerest wish is that this story merely acts as another tool to inform prospective teachers. I hope that individuals in the future can avoid some of the mistakes I have made. It is great to get feedback like yours Maoman  |
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TaoyuanSteve

Joined: 05 Feb 2003 Posts: 1028 Location: Taoyuan
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Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:51 am Post subject: |
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teach2005 wrote: |
Thanks! As I mentioned before, my sincerest wish is that this story merely acts as another tool to inform prospective teachers. I hope that individuals in the future can avoid some of the mistakes I have made. It is great to get feedback like yours Maoman  |
I am absolutely sure your story will act as a tool to inform teachers. Unlike some who have no sympathy for teachers who-- despite the best of intentions-- wind up working illegally, I have the nothing but empathy for those who are victimized by employers who do not fully inform their foreign staff. Foreign teachers are caught up in the mess surrounding preschools. There is a lot of demand for English instruction in kindergarten. Most large children's companies offer preschool classes. These are, of course, illegal. My rhetorical question here is why, given the fact that this practice is illegal, do English kindies continue to operate openly and advertise through mainstrem media outlets? It's quite obvious where these places are and, if there were any real will to do so, they could be shut down immediately. Instead, we see defacto tolerance with occasional, sporadic "inspections." Makes me wonder who is getting paid. Teachers are never informed of the legal status of these schools. They will divulge information only if confronted with direct questions. They will never volunteer information regarding their status (or--consequently-- your legal status as a teacher in their kindy program). Blaming a teacher for getting duped into working for what they thought was a large, legit company infuriates me to no end. The regulatory environment, laws and employment here are often unfair to us. A point Aristotle makes is true: many of us are illegal to some extent, at one point or another; and I believe the regulatory environment is largely to blame for this. I blame the government for passing a law that continued high English kindergarten enrollment proves is not popular, to say nothing of being obeyed. I blame local citizens for not opposing this law or, if they actually suipport it, I blame authorities for not immediately shutting down these kindergartens as could if they wanted to. I blame authorities for arresting foreigners who are largely ignorant of the supposed law while the school operator is left to continue operations. I blame school companies for hiring staff from overseas for a job they know is not legal. In short, I am on the teachers' side of this. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2056
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Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:12 am Post subject: |
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TaoyuanSteve wrote: |
Unlike some who have no sympathy for teachers who-- despite the best of intentions-- wind up working illegally, I have the nothing but empathy for those who are victimized by employers who do not fully inform their foreign staff. |
Well I may be assuming too much but I assume that TS is directing this at me, so allow me to retort.
Firstly TS, how is that this teacher, or teachers in general, are being victimized by employers? The school offers a position and the teacher accepts it. The teacher teaches, the school pays them. Where is the victimization there?
TaoyuanSteve wrote: |
Foreign teachers are caught up in the mess surrounding preschools. |
How? The only way a foreign teacher could possibly get 'caught up in the mess surrounding preschools' is if they a) are willing to work in such a position regardless of the law; b) failed to do any research about working in Taiwan. In the case of this thread the OP admits to being guilty of both a) and b).
I am unclear as to why we should be automatically sympathetic to someone who has failed to protect him or herself. Is it because we are foreigners and they are foreigners? This is the 'us' and 'them' that comes from bitter teachers. Surely we should support those who have been wronged and stand up against those who are acting badly.
Are you disagreeing with my earlier point that we as adults have a degree of responsibility for our own decisions? Or do you subscribe to the logic that it is a poor foreign teacher being victimized by those nasty Taiwanese business people who run schools for a 'profit'!!
TaoyuanSteve wrote: |
There is a lot of demand for English instruction in kindergarten. Most large children's companies offer preschool classes. These are, of course, illegal. My rhetorical question here is why, given the fact that this practice is illegal, do English kindies continue to operate openly and advertise through mainstrem media outlets? It's quite obvious where these places are and, if there were any real will to do so, they could be shut down immediately. Instead, we see defacto tolerance with occasional, sporadic "inspections." Makes me wonder who is getting paid. |
None of this is the fault of the schools, many of which are legitimate businesses just trying to make a living and provide a wanted service despite the nonsense legislation. As we all know it is silly, and it is one of the reasons that I have always recommended against teaching in kindergartens. Why get caught up in all of this when there are perfectly legal positions available around the corner with older kids?
TS you have been here long enough to know how things work, and therefore your post here is obviously just a dig at me. We all know that Chinese rarely fix anything that isn't broken. We all know that preschools continue without difficulty as many of the police and legislators enrol their own kids in the programs. This is all for the Taiwanese to sort out in my opinion, but the answer for foreign teachers is simple. If you don't want to get involved with all of this then don't take a position at a preschool. If you really want to see change then don't work for a pre-school. You can be sure that when the legislators no longer have a foreign teacher for their child that the laws will be changed. Break it and they will fix it!
TaoyuanSteve wrote: |
Teachers are never informed of the legal status of these schools. They will divulge information only if confronted with direct questions. They will never volunteer information regarding their status (or--consequently-- your legal status as a teacher in their kindy program). |
As I have said repeatedly in this thread, any teacher who comes to Taiwan to accept a position with any school without doing any research about the school or teaching in Taiwan is in fact his or her own worst enemy. Forget about the schools responsibility. Doesn't the teacher have a responsibilty to him or herself first? I believe that they do.
The information about the illegality of teaching in kindergartens is everywhere. Any teacher that claims he or she didn't know this either didn't bother taking the time to look, or is crying foul even though they knew the truth.
Why not take the power away from the schools? If each teacher does his or her own research then surely the information provided by the school becomes inconsequential and would just serve to reinforce anything the teacher found out by themselves.
TS are you suggesting that schools should baby teachers, and that teachers should be dependant upon schools?
TaoyuanSteve wrote: |
Blaming a teacher for getting duped into working for what they thought was a large, legit company infuriates me to no end. |
Are you talking about a situation where a teacher accepts a position on the promise that it is a legal position, only to find out later that it isn't and the teacher had no way of knowing this?
If you are then you are just re-enforcing what I stated above in my earlier post. Every teacher here would have sympathy for any other teacher who was promised a legal position only to find out later that it wasn't so. This is a clear case of the wrong against the wronged.
If on the other hand you are talking about positions in kindergartens then this begs the question - what responsibility do you think teachers have to themselves in researching work in Taiwan?
TaoyuanSteve wrote: |
I believe the regulatory environment is largely to blame for this. I blame the government for passing a law that continued high English kindergarten enrollment proves is not popular, to say nothing of being obeyed. I blame local citizens for not opposing this law or, if they actually suipport it, I blame authorities for not immediately shutting down these kindergartens as could if they wanted to. I blame authorities for arresting foreigners who are largely ignorant of the supposed law while the school operator is left to continue operations. I blame school companies for hiring staff from overseas for a job they know is not legal. In short, I am on the teachers' side of this. |
So let me ask you, as you feel so strongly about the above, what steps have you taken to improve the situation?
For years now I have been trying to educate teachers, which has the effect of taking power out of the hands of the government and employers and into the hands of teachers. Surely there is little point in whingeing about things and pointing fingers at everyone but yourself, claiming that everyone else is wrong - when you yourself could have easily avoided trouble in the first place.
So TS what exactly is your point? What do you think the solution to this problem is? How do you think that it can be acheived? And finally, how do you think that the users of this message board can best help newbies arriving in Taiwan to teach?
Despite the fact that you rarely actually follow up on points that you raise, I would be really interested in your reply to the above. |
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Fortigurn
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 Posts: 390
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Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:20 am Post subject: |
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TaoyuanSteve wrote: |
There is a lot of demand for English instruction in kindergarten. Most large children's companies offer preschool classes. These are, of course, illegal. My rhetorical question here is why, given the fact that this practice is illegal, do English kindies continue to operate openly and advertise through mainstrem media outlets? It's quite obvious where these places are and, if there were any real will to do so, they could be shut down immediately. Instead, we see defacto tolerance with occasional, sporadic "inspections." |
Exactly. You can register and open a school called 'Happy One Golden Luck Dragon English Preschool Full Of Foreign Teachers', advertise all over the place, and nothing will happen.
A Taiwanese friend of mine started a school last year called 'Your Baby Montessori English Preschool', just down the road from a local police station. She has been running it for a year, well advertised in the local community, and hasn't had a single visit from the inspectors, despite the fact that police go past regularly.
Quote: |
Teachers are never informed of the legal status of these schools. They will divulge information only if confronted with direct questions. They will never volunteer information regarding their status (or--consequently-- your legal status as a teacher in their kindy program). |
I have to disagree with this. I actually work for Kojen's Shilin branch (though not in the preschool - I take adults almost exclusively, and have one elementary school class), and I was given full information as to what was legal and what wasn't.
In my case the only issue was working before my ARC was processed. A number of other teachers were in the same position. I had been fully informed of this issue by the Kojen staff prior to my starting working at Kojen.
When inspectors came around to our school to check people's ARCs, the school received prior notice that they were coming (all very genteel). Teachers who didn't have their ARC were advise to simply stay home.
Teachers who came and worked anyway were advised to use the external fire escape to get to their classes on the top floor. The internal door which led to the staircase up to the top floor was locked, so the inspectors wouldn't use it (it looks like the door to a storage room anyway).
The 'inspection' ran smoothly. The inspectors came, no one was caught doing anything they shouldn't, the inspectors went, and everyone was happy.
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I blame the government for passing a law that continued high English kindergarten enrollment proves is not popular, to say nothing of being obeyed. I blame local citizens for not opposing this law or, if they actually suipport it, I blame authorities for not immediately shutting down these kindergartens as could if they wanted to. I blame authorities for arresting foreigners who are largely ignorant of the supposed law while the school operator is left to continue operations. I blame school companies for hiring staff from overseas for a job they know is not legal. In short, I am on the teachers' side of this. |
I do agree. I wish the government would stop pretending that it takes this issue seriously. It is clear that the government has no intention of actually preventing these schools being registered, opened, and functioning. |
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Fortigurn
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 Posts: 390
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Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:23 am Post subject: |
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clark.w.griswald wrote: |
The only way a foreign teacher could possibly get 'caught up in the mess surrounding preschools' is if they a) are willing to work in such a position regardless of the law; b) failed to do any research about working in Taiwan. In the case of this thread the OP admits to being guilty of both a) and b).
I am unclear as to why we should be automatically sympathetic to someone who has failed to protect him or herself. Is it because we are foreigners and they are foreigners? This is the 'us' and 'them' that comes from bitter teachers. Surely we should support those who have been wronged and stand up against those who are acting badly. |
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We all know that Chinese rarely fix anything that isn't broken. We all know that preschools continue without difficulty as many of the police and legislators enrol their own kids in the programs. This is all for the Taiwanese to sort out in my opinion, but the answer for foreign teachers is simple. If you don't want to get involved with all of this then don't take a position at a preschool. If you really want to see change then don't work for a pre-school. You can be sure that when the legislators no longer have a foreign teacher for their child that the laws will be changed. Break it and they will fix it! |
Quote: |
As I have said repeatedly in this thread, any teacher who comes to Taiwan to accept a position with any school without doing any research about the school or teaching in Taiwan is in fact his or her own worst enemy. Forget about the schools responsibility. Doesn't the teacher have a responsibilty to him or herself first? I believe that they do.
The information about the illegality of teaching in kindergartens is everywhere. Any teacher that claims he or she didn't know this either didn't bother taking the time to look, or is crying foul even though they knew the truth.
Why not take the power away from the schools? If each teacher does his or her own research then surely the information provided by the school becomes inconsequential and would just serve to reinforce anything the teacher found out by themselves. |
Thanks for a very balanced post. |
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