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jamesallan
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 36
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 Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 5:56 am Post subject: what is the Teacher's Blacklist |
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What is the Blacklist and what do I need to do to get on it..?
Am thinking of telling owner of school what it think of them...
Is it run by a Government Agency? |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 6:34 am Post subject: Re: what is the Teacher's Blacklist |
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| jamesallan wrote: |
What is the Blacklist and what do I need to do to get on it..?
Am thinking of telling owner of school what it think of them...
Is it run by a Government Agency? |
I am as guilty as anyone for perpetuating the myth of the 'Teacher Blacklist' merely because it is an easy way to refer to the process. In actuality there is no longer such a thing as a teacher blacklist. There used to be when the MOE was more involved with foreign teachers, but there is no longer a blacklist for teachers.
Now the official process involves the Council of Labor Affairs (CLA) putting a mark against your name. Your name is not added to a list. If however you have a mark against your name then any application you make for a work permit to teach in Taiwan in the future will be rejected. As it stands now, this 'blacklisting' is permanent.
Something worth considering is that the employer has no say as to whether or not you get a mark against your name. If you break your contract and run away from your employer, then the employer is obliged by law to notify the CLA of this. You would then be blacklisted on the information provided by the school, but not because the school wants you to be blacklisted. There is no power there for the school.
The easiest way to get a mark against your name is to leave your employer without notice. The CLA suggests giving at least 30 days written notice to avoid complications in this area.
Unofficial blacklists do exist, but they have no effect upon you officially, and there value to schools is pretty limited. |
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Miyazaki
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 635
Location: My Father's Yacht
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 7:16 am Post subject: |
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Last month went into the Taipei City Police Dpt. over in Ximan and spoke with a police officer about the "Black List."
He said that there is a "Black List" and that it's not only for English teachers.
As well, my boss wanted to hire a Canadian teacher recently and they had to stop the application for his work permit because when they checked the "Black List" his name and info were on it!
This list isn't in English and because it's written in Chinese, you're not gonna have too many teachers that will be able to read it. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| Miyazaki wrote: |
Last month went into the Taipei City Police Dpt. over in Ximan and spoke with a police officer about the "Black List."
He said that there is a "Black List" and that it's not only for English teachers. |
Miyazaki, what you are referring to is a visa based 'blacklist' held by the immigration authorities. This is the 'list' that overstayers and people caught working illegally, or people deported or denied entry to Taiwan would be added to. The foreign affairs police have nothing to do with work permit affairs, their concern is with visas and ARC's. This is why the police officer you spoke to was aware of a 'blacklist' but he was referring to their database which involves visa matters.
Work permits and visas are two different things.
It is different than the teachers blacklist that the OP was referring to.
| Miyazaki wrote: |
| As well, my boss wanted to hire a Canadian teacher recently and they had to stop the application for his work permit because when they checked the "Black List" his name and info were on it! |
If that is what the school told the teacher then I think that you will find that there was either a misunderstanding or the school was misleading the teacher.
There is no blacklist of teachers. It just doesn't exist. The only people who can stop the processing of a work permit application for teachers is the CLA. They do not have a blacklist, but as I said earlier they will put a mark against your name if you have previously 'run away' from an employer. Possibly the teacher that you refer to had a mark against his or name and the CLA reported to the school that they would not give him a work permit.
Alternatively the school may have changed their mind about employing the guy for some reason, and just come back and blamed this on a 'blacklist'. Bear in mind that until a couple of years ago there was a teachers blacklist and many schools are no doubt unaware that the teacher blacklist has now been abolished.
| Miyazaki wrote: |
| This list isn't in English and because it's written in Chinese, you're not gonna have too many teachers that will be able to read it. |
It is correct that it is written in Chinese as it is on an internal database for use by the CLA in processing work permit applications. It is not a list that you can just call up online and have a gander at.
I just want to make it clear to everyone that there is no list as such. There is a process, but no list. |
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Ki
Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 475
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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30 days? I thought it was two weeks notice that had to be given. Does this still persist if you stay, or want to stay, for the 30 days if and even your boss delegates a longer time.
Isn't having a mark against your name having the same effect as a blacklist? It doesn't make any difference what you call it, it still has the same effect.
Work permits and visas may be different but they still represent the same crap which requires us to be legal here. I know that, Clark, you take great pains to differentiate the differences between all of this but in the end it is just the same result. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 6:54 am Post subject: |
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| Ki wrote: |
| 30 days? I thought it was two weeks notice that had to be given. Does this still persist if you stay, or want to stay, for the 30 days if and even your boss delegates a longer time. |
The 30 days that the CLA refers to is the limit set under the Employment Services Act. If you and your employer have agreed to two weeks and it is written in your contract, then I am sure that you wouldn't get any strife from the CLA as you have fulfilled the terms of your agreement.
As far as I can tell, you would be entitled to work out the door the day after your notice period finished without any concerns from the CLA. Just make sure that everything is writing.
The possibility of penalties imposed by the school may be a good reason to work with the school rather than a against them however.
| Ki wrote: |
| Isn't having a mark against your name having the same effect as a blacklist? It doesn't make any difference what you call it, it still has the same effect. |
Yes. And this is no doubt why I also refer to the practice, as referring to it as a blacklist. I don't have a problem with that as long as everyone understands.
My point in posting the above was just to ensure that everyone was aware that there is no list as such, it is just a process. It is not as though you can log on and check through a list of names to see if yours is on it. I have a feeling that some people think that this is what it is, and that is not the case.
Overall though you are correct. The end result is the same.
| Ki wrote: |
| Work permits and visas may be different but they still represent the same crap which requires us to be legal here. I know that, Clark, you take great pains to differentiate the differences between all of this but in the end it is just the same result. |
True, and I take your point.
The reason that I attempt to clarify the differences to people is that I see people post here who are obviously frustrated, when all it is is a simple misunderstanding. Having said that, I don't think that you will see me jumping down peoples throats for using the wrong terminology, unless of course they are stating something to be a fact when it isn't. |
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