Job Discussion Forums

[Scott in Incheon]

I am in Korea and supporting my wife (who just now starting to do some tutoring and add to the household income) , two kids and handing a fair chunk to the inlaws. In my case, I had the experience and paper on the wall to get a fairly good job.

Your best bet if you can afford would be to get a job that offers some sort of housing allowance and then get a place of your own. The problem is that you will have to put down a hefty piece of change for the deposit on the apartment...or what they call key money....can be anywhere from 15 million won to 50 million won.

I know of two single mothers that are raising their kids here. Both have gotten places of their own but one did start out in a job supplied apartment. They can be quite small and many jobs don't make allowances for teaches with families.

I am not sure why Glenski is bringing up a language barrier between you and your son. Our first daugher spent her early years in Hong Kong. My wife stayed home...our daughter was in a home with Korean and English...experience a lot of Cantonese outside the home and we didn't have any language problems except for a complaint by my wife that her English was stronger than her Korean. My wife spoke Korean to her during the day but she watched a lot of English DVD's and when I came home English became the language of the home (as my Korean is terrible).

[Glenski]

[Scott in Incheon]

I am still not sure how this barrier would arise. If your family speaks English at home as that is the language you and your wife use...then your child should speak English and there would be no barrier...

If you use Japanese as the main language at home, then I would assume you know enough Japanese to hold a convesation with your wife so why couldn't you talk to your child.

Are you not doing enough to create an English environment at home?

I did a lot of research into bilingualism and bilingual families and I don't remember coming across any cases where a child and parent couldn't communicate. Plenty of cases where children refuse to use a language but that was usaually just short term.

I don't discount what you are saying...it is happening to you..but I honestly can't understand why it would be.

[schwa]

I detect some wit & flexibility on Rolander's part which continues to suggest to me that Korea might be a good choice. Not sure why the Japan guys are endeavoring to own this thread after they have already chased the OP away from that option.

I also like the fact that Rolander is responsive -- far too many newbies post their inquiries here never to be heard from again.

Korea approached with eyes open offers the advantages of minimal start-up costs & savings potential from the get-go. Suitable housing for a family is an understandable primary concern & is certainly possible, but needs to be insisted on upfront. Some jobs will be simply unable to provide it, but a fair percentage of teachers here have generous housing space. Especially outside the big cities, a point I mentioned before.

EPIK is not a bad consideration. I work for them (4 years on now) & their mandate is putting people in public school positions & often in less populous areas. Their hiring policy is transparent & nondiscriminatory. Some postings are remote (think cultural immersion!) but public school teachers do get a bit of extra local respect & a family would certainly be treated kindly.

Type epik into any search engine & you'll find their homepage. The main annual intake is in august but its possible to get taken on at other times of the year.

Small friendly honest hagwons also exist in smaller towns & with a bit of hunting you could certainly find a happy situation. If youre as smart as I take you to be, you'd figure out the teaching side of things pretty quick.

Yeh, theres potential for your wife to find specialized tutoring. Once youre established, if youre liked, opportunity will present itself.

Rolander, if you decide to focus on Korea, do start inquiring around that board. There are hardasses & cynics there, but you'll find good advice & support as well.

Again, best luck.

[Ben Round de Bloc]

[Glenski]

Scott,
My Japanese wife and I speak as much English at home as possible, but since I work 11-12 hours a day, she sees him far more than I do and immerses him in Japanese, despite various TV programs that he watches regularly. He knows some things only in English, and many things in both languages, and some things only in Japanese. That last part is growing faster than the others for obvious reasons.

When she talks to him in Japanese, it is of course a form of baby-talk, and that becomes part of the communication barrier. I don't know Japanese fluently, and what I know is not baby-talk, so there is a line of communication between him and her that loses me. He also gets words and expressions from her and her family (and everything else that he learns from his environment) that are not baby-talk but are sometimes still beyond my vocabulary. That's going to continue as he grows, and so will the barrier.

I, too, have read studies on bilingualism, but until you experience it yourself, all the studies in the world do little except to reinforce a situation you may already be in, or to contradict it with what I feel is an obvious thing -- namely, that there are so many types of situations that it is hard to state specifics.

I'm not overly concerned because I know this is only temporary, but I mentioned it for the sake of the OP because I felt it would happen to him.

[rolander]

Schwa, thanks for the kind words and advice. I wrote a long post with some particulars, pointed observations, and a good lashing of death-inducing humour, but something went screwy when I tried to post and it disappeared. The gist of it was that I was happy to think of going somewhere with lost start-up costs and the possibility of generous living space. The former is not crucial insofar as we could before leaving here patch together enough to live for a while. When considering Korea--and that's what we've been doing lately--we thought three or four grand, outside of travel costs, would suffice to begin. But, it's definitely nice to think that this money might prove unnecessary. Korea does sound doable. I notice that EPIK has garnered its own privileged space on the Korea forum, and that's what I'll be looking at for the next little while. Hopefull your experiences generalize to the wider TEFL community. It's not easy teasing apart reality--whatever that may be--from the random (subjective) experiences of some teachers. We're going to approach everything cautiously.

Merci Canadienne,
Rol

[rolander]

'ello, Scott in Incheon

I had read your post a good clump of days ago but hadn't found the time [essay due] to respond.

I'm glad to hear that you're managing to support or supplement an extended family on the one salary. Your experience and "paper"- you mentioned- had something to do with your getting good work off the hop. If you wouldn't mind elaborating, I'd appreciate it; if not, no concern (I would imagine a few years teaching and a grad degree).

Your post was heartening and, along with other posts in the Korean forum, makes Korea seem the best route. Japan seems punishing in the initial stages (year, two, who knows?). From what I have gathered by now, Korea's a bit wilder, Koreans more confrontational and at least ostensibly more racist/nationalistic than the Japanese.
This is not the proper place, I think, for this question, but since I have the stand:

How, specifically, would you go about verifying the legitimacy of some school or hagwon owner? Talk to a teacher on the ground, sure, but how many? is there some kind of regulatory organization/website that keeps track of Korean TESL schools?

If you fail to reply, than I'll take that as a cue that my search through this board should be more intensive. If you do reply, thanks in advance and for your original post.

As for the language barrier issue, I think everyone had something useful to say. A child's hungry, pliant brain will absorb two languages with relative ease if their use is more or less evenly distributed time-wise. For the parents, it would be harder but not insurmountable, particularly if the effort is there. Glenski, your wife is Japanese, and your child has little exposure to English outside of your restricted time and some programs. My wife would be speaking English to the child (with a German accent, but English nonetheless), as would I. Between our speaking English, and the Korean he'd learn through his non-familial environment, I think he'll develop a similar level of proficiency in both langauges. If there a disparity develops, I imagine it would be lean towards Korean; but, again, we wouldn't be derelict in picking up K. ourselves. After all that gabbing, I still think you have a point because what actually happens often doesn't conform to what we think will happen, and it's possible that his language learning will be almost exclusively Korean, and outpace us so badly that we'd have trouble understanding each other.

Rol

[Glenski]

[Scott in Incheon]

rolander...

I got the job in some small part due to 10 years experience and a recently acquired Masters in Education. But having said that, they are lots of people in university jobs who don't have this...they either had timing (were available the at the right moment usually after someone just bailed for some reason) or connections (a lot of good jobs go to teachers through recommendations).

You can go with the EPIK or GEPIK programs which are government sponsored so there is less chance of being screwed over. But for schools, the best way has always been to contact the departing teacher or any teacher who used to work there and talk to them. You should join the Korean forums and start a search there...lots of info and there is always the chance that someone knows the school you are thinking about. If you have the money you can come to Korea and look for work...not sure if this feasible with a family to support though.

Back to the language...

DVD's can be a saviour. If your spouse is not speaking your language at home and you are not around, then get a load of English Dvd's for kids and play them continually...this is how our first learn a huge chunk of her English....

[Gregor]

OP,
China's also a possibility.
Sorry; I'd have chimed in earlier but I don't come to the newbie forum as often as I should.
I work for EF in China, and yes, plenty of people will tell you not to work for them, and that it's the McDonalds of English schools and so on. But you want to find a steady and secure job, decent salary, be able to support the wife and kid, and maybe save a bit of dosh, correct?
OK. I got into teaching with no degree, but now managed to make myself legal and legit by earning my TESOL diploma from Trinity College, London. I'm cool again.
You don't need THAT, but that has qualified me under the degree requirement for the work permit.
OK. Get the BA and the CELTA (or whatever), and you're good to go. EF needs people. Entry level MIGHT be a bit lean, but that will end after the first year, and even within 6 months, you'd be on 6000 RMB/month, which is about $740 US. Doesn't sound like much, I know, but you should be able to work out either a small flat on your own (usually the teachers share an place) or else a housing allowance to help you get a place of your own, and you can negotiate enough to pay 90-100% of the flat. So US$740/month, rent-free.
In addition, life in China is dirty cheap. It's just jaw-dropping how cheaply you can live here, especially if you don't go out drinking in expensive places all the time.
And here's the thing about EF (and this may appeal to you as a family man) - you can actually work your way up to better positions and better salaries. If you're good and helpful and the students like you and blah blah blah (and this depends 100% on YOUR attitude and work ethic, I don't care WHAT anyone else says), you could qualify as a Senior Teacher in your second contract, and after two years, you would technically qualify to do the Trinity diploma (PM me if you don't understand what that is), and you'd qualify for a DOS position.Yes, a DOS position is often a BS gig, but it pays fairly well, especially once you have some experience in that, and it would qualify you (especially with the Trinity Dip.) to do some pretty well-paying jobs elsewhere outside of EF, if you decide by then that you don't like the company.
The contract is also easy to get out of. Some companies absolutely will not let you out of a contract once its signed, but the EF contract has an out if you decide you can't stand China/your DOS/the management/whatever.

I know I sound like a recruiter. I don't actually care if you go to EF. I'm just trying to help. I don't know if I will stay with EF after my current contract, but even if not, I've got some good experience out of this place and my boss even paid for my Trinity Diploma (I had to EARN it, of course).
I just like to help. Surely someone out there will back me up on that. I like to help people get into TEFL and be happy with the decision, because it really changed my life in a huge and great way, and I owe the field in general my gratitude and assistance.
If you have any interest whatsoever in any of this, send me a PM and I am happy to help out.
Otherwise, best of luck and let us know what you decide to do.

PS - By the way, a CELTA or something is a good idea to have even if you don't technically need it for the job. For one, it helps you get ready to DO the job more than a lot of TEFLers out there will admit or remember, and for two, it helps to show you whether or not it's a job that you can really be happy doing. Sure, anyone can do the job, but it is emphatically NOT for some people.

[rolander]

Scott,

Congrats on bagging the Masters. And thanks for the added info. I have to say, the non-newbies on this board are super-forthcoming about all and every aspect of TEFL-ing. Then again, you're teachers, so I guess it's in the vocational blood.

I've been at the Korean forums. I started out with a perusal, then moseyed into a reading, and finally lauched in to some full-throttle scouring; and I've concluded that nothing's conclusive about this gig. EPIK has mixed reviews, but it seems like a relatively good lead to follow. So, we're there.

Again, kudos on the big M. I don't have first-hand experience, but I'm thinking it took a sweat or two to get.


Gregor,

I don't wish to be curt, especially because you gave a lot to your post, and the enthusiasm's infectious, but the $740 US a month hurts. It's great that one can live like Midas on that in China, but we're not sure if we'll stay wherever we go. As it stands now, we're flexible, but we're hoping that we can actually save at least a little money in case we decide to return. My understanding is that since we'd be living on either a) my salary alone; or b) my salary plus what my wife can make giving private lessons on the side, Korea would be the right choice...the Arab countries pay well, but Asia was our second choice (after Europe).

I'm happy to hear that things are going well for you over there. I don't know you, but it's always nice when someone somewhere is feeling as well as you seem to be.

Hey, that wasn't so curt. More like "yakky".

Rol

P.S: if you're a recruiter: good job! Were I single, I'd be googling flight fare info by now.