Job Discussion Forums

[SillySally]

Several public unis are now signing 3 year FE contracts.

Try Xiaoxing University for example. A Henan Province public uni offered a 3 year contract and now a Changchun public uni has surfaced with such an offer.

Is this good or bad for the school, for the FE?

What is your opinion?

[Mideatoo]

It will never be bad for the U.
The dean will always find a reason to fire the teacher if he needs to.
I think it is great for the FT, but such a long commitment requires a higher salary�

[Chris_Crossley]

Frankly, I would be wary of contracts that lasted for more than two years. On the one hand, it sounds like one has job security for at least three years. On the other hand, since "this is China", as the old well-worn cliche goes, it can mean all sorts of problems which give the employer the advantage and thus disadvantage the FT.

For example, the FT may eventually want out and the employer will say, "No, you signed a three-year contract: you have another 2 1/2 years to go!" In this way, the FT may seem to be "shackled", especially if it means that leaving early may result in a lot of acrimony. If the employer has plenty of guanxi, it may become very difficult to get another job locally, as these employers have the uncomfortable tendency of warning every one of his associates to watch out for so-and-so because he/she has just walked out of the school, he/she therefore is "bad" and not to be trusted, and so on and so on.

I have to say, however, that I find it extraordinary that ordinary teaching or lecturing jobs without any extra managerial-type responsibility are being offered for three years at a trot. If one were the principal of a school, then contracts of two or three years in length would not be unusual, as the school authorities would want a person at the helm for more than one year, as it indicates the desire for stability.

To me, it sounds suspiciously like they want to "land" somebody in the same way that somebody wants to "land" a fish. It's a kind of "your a*s is mine" kind of situation, and that it is one that I would definitely feel uncomfortable with. I would avoid it like the plague (another old well-worn cliche, I know).

[tw]

[Don McChesney]

I'm in Zhengzhou, and they NEED me.
I'm happy to sign a 6 month contract with a one way airfare, then if I extend, I get the full round trip fare.
This way I can renegotiate my salary, contract details etc, and if I am an asset to the school, I have leverage for many things including what I teach the next year. The previous guys who signed for a year got 'used'.

They have to be nice to me or else they may lose me, and they know it.
Sign for longer than a year? NO way. You rarely sign for that period in your home country, why let China do it to you.

[Roger]

I think this is NOT a bad idea.
Of course, they should NOT hire anyone straight from overseas - they should recruit FTs already here.

Some like permanency and continuity in their lives; signing on every year is a stressing experience unless you are guarjanteed a new contract before the old one expires.

If you don't care for long-term commitments then you cannot possibly be caring for career ddevelopment.
IKf you care for your career in China you stand to get a better reference; your students might also benefit from being accompanied for more than one year by you. Your employer might lift you to a more senior position.

I suppose this new 3-year offer is in line with the PSB policy of granting greencards to certain long-term residents. It stands to rewason that long-term residents get rewarded with long-term employment.

[Mideatoo]

ANSWERING YOUR PM ROGER, MINE DOESN'T WORK...

Not at all - Actually I would love you to close the team, you have so much to bring and to share with us.

But I cannot put only one egg in my basket...
Whishing you a safe and a nice trip.
You have my mobile.
Thanks!

[cj750]

I just signed a two year contract and for many of the reasons that Roger stated...it is stressfull and the security of the two years also gives me an extra two months to travel next year as I am not concerned with looking for another job...when the contract ends..I did however haggle a clause that would allow for rate changes ..as I get half in US dollors ...and a reasonable way out should it not work...with a time probation period for both me as the employee and the employer...month notice..after all nothing is forever..no airline ticket clause but a structured bonus...% of yearly with a review to determine if a rase is warrented after a year...as to gettin stale..I never determine my lifestyle by my work ..it is just to bankroll it...to me all work is boring..hours during the day spent to finance the rest of my life...

[shatov]

This is a good idea - as long as the FT does have a get-out clause, and has had a chance to negotiate as good a contract as possible. I'm signing a contract now, and coming to China for the first time. I wouldn't want to sign a 3 year contract.
However, if I like the university after 1 year, why not sign up for another 3? Cut down on the stress and hassle of searching for a new job, moving all your stuff, etc. There are FTs who are putting down roots where they live, and maight never want to move. 3 year contracts (or longer) would give them a lot more stability.

Also I've noticed that quite a few universities are going for 9 or 10 month contracts - my contract is going to be 9 months. A 3 year contract could well fill up those 2 or 3 months in summer, or at least provide some extra money if not full pay. That would be nice.

For the extra loyalty and benefits that a 3 year contract gives the school, we should hope that the FT will get added benefits - decent health insurance for a start.

[cj750]

Not always..the trend now is to write a multi year contract with as much as 4 months off with ony two or those months paid..leaving two months to be filed with an additional contract for a summer camp or other programs....it would be much like a school contract with a college back on the block...for a part time teacher

[SillySally]

I am very impressed and appreciative of all the responses thus far. Thoughtful!

I have given this matter long and careful consideration for reasons I will explain later.

It does appear to me that this extended contract is NOT GOOD for two type of people.

Obviously such a long committment in one location would NOT be good for the backpacker, someone who is on an extended vacation only to be interrupted by the necessity of work. This would crimp their style. My opinion seems to be echoed by some of you.

It would also NOT be good for someone who wishes to maintain some kind of real or perceived leverege or control over their employer.

I think in all fairness, I should state that as far as I know, these extended contract opportunities are only offerred to veteran teachers who have completed a one year contract and the teacher has then asked for an extended contract. Both the teacher and the school are temporarily in love with each other and willing to enter into a more relaxed and comforatable relationship. This is not an attempt by a school to enslave or bind someone for any reason.

It also seems to me that this extended contract is VERY GOOD for elderly teachers, such as myself. It reduces so many hassles with changing jobs every year and it reduces the stress of moving every year.

I should also mention that the FE housing for these extended term contracts is regular apartments and not dormitory rooms or hotel rooms. That means you can have some kind of real HOME! You can personalise your diggs! You can settle in and engage in nest building, particularly important for us older people!

But I am thinking that the 3 year contract may be best for the FE who marries a local. Think about it? Stability. In a small community there may not be enough schools to change jobs every year without trying to take the Chinese spouse to a new community, something very difficult in itself.
This one thing could reduce many of the problems we read about here at Dave's.

This is also VERY GOOD for anyone who wishes to purchase real estate. The bank is more willing to extend a mortgage etc.

Well, tell me I am Silly, but maybe this is something we all should take a closer look at?

[shatov]

cj750 - I wasn't aware of that. It is interesting.

Something I almost put in before, but didn't - extending to a 3 year contract suggests that in the future it may be moved even further. Permanent positions appeal to anybody?

I think that there will be increasing numbers of FTs who will want to settle in China, and put down really roots. The introduction of permanent positions would significantly change the situation of those FTs - increased professionalism etc.

On the other hand, it could also result in pressure to bring FTs' salaries more in line with Chinese teachers' salaries - something that the FT community would not accept at the moment.
But it is inevitable as China's currency strengthens and more FTs' stick around, reducing annual relocation expenses.

[SillySally]

[quote="shatov"]cj750 - I
On the other hand, it could also result in pressure to bring FTs' salaries more in line with Chinese teachers' salaries - something that the FT community would not accept at the moment.
quote]

Really? I am negotiating for September 2006 (September 2005 is a lock) and I AM asking for parity with my Chinese counterparts.

This is what they gave the last Chinese Ph.D. they recruited:
5 year contract
100,000 rmb cash transfer expense
100,000 rmb cash settling down money
140 sq mt new apartment decorated to suit (Title transferred to teacher but held by school until contract completed. If contract not completed, teacher must pay pro rata on 350,000 rmb cost.)
240,000 cash research grant
9,000 rmb per month for 9 teaching periods
Medical insurance
End term bonus of 10% plus for extra students

I wish I were paid like a Chinese teacher.

[tarzaninchina]

Lots of pertinent points here. The second school I was at, private BTW, was one where I kinda liked and was willing to sign a two-year contract.

Problems. Things change way too much in China, especially in private schools. Second, the boss renigged on a lot of stuff in the contract without notice or discussion. Third, contracts (should) always have an escape clause, even if it's just death. Fourth, then there's the concept of airfare and if that's paid on an annual basis or what have you.

Renewal is much better IMO. There is a valid point where if they want/need you, they'll be nicer to you. I have doubts about signing six month contracts though, especially with publics. Besides, if you only get the 6-month F visa (or whichever it is), they technically don't have to provide you with a kitchen unless you negotiate for it.

[SillySally]

6 month contracts is now the norm in Shanghai public unis.