Job Discussion Forums

[mci]

This has turned out to be a dandy of a thread and all bickering aside, I'd like to wonder aloud if anyone has considered the perspective that we are truly missing a very important aspect of stereotyping and education - that is, the imposition of our own cultural and educational philosophies onto a completely foreign environment. The resistance of this kind of cultural imperialism is very well documented in literature and mentioned anecdotally here in regards to introducing inappropriate subject matter to the students. I'm sure you know of Edward Said's work on Orientalism and this criticism of western concepts intruding into the eastern, and especially Islamic world.

This is a serious matter and well worth examining. You'll experience it 'on the ground' in Bahrain, moonraven, and you might well look back on this forum and see where some of the posters are coming from - rather than dismissing the attitude as jaded or apathetic, it stems from very real experiences.

Just be objective of your own approach to your consulting - it sounds a bit like "It's what's good for them" .

Devil's advocate

[Cleopatra]

[Henry_Cowell]

[Henry_Cowell]

[globalnomad2]

Henry, what did I say before? I said it's not new ideas we object to; it's the objectionable attitude with which the pearls of wisdom are imparted, in this case by Moonraven's ravings, which have an obviously long history of causing these caustic threads. Personally, I have a low tolerance-threshold for pomposity and BS. Tell you a story: at my last university in the UAE, somebody with that attitude joined our English faculty. "Look around you--so many dim bulbs!" he would exclaim openly in the corridors. "In a year, two-thirds of these people will be gone!" Evidently he thought he was entitled to such public remarks because he was a section leader and co-introducer of a "new" (i.e., copied from HCT) curriculum

His lack of collegiality and unprofessional arrogance levels alienated those two-thirds. Now guess who's been demoted to rank-and-file teacher.

Cleo--you're cool. Way to go! (If you're in Riyadh, are you a woman teaching at a woman's college?? Just curious). But I must say, I find the cultural environment far more stimulating in the UAE than in sterile KSA!

[Henry_Cowell]

globalnomad, you're quite wrong. Take a look at this thread from the beginning. It was (first) veiledsentiments and (much later) Cleopatra who quickly and strongly objected to the substance of what moonraven had done -- her ideas -- and not to her 'attitude'. That's what got all the blood boiling. It was a reaction to different ideas about teaching and about the students who are taught.

[globalnomad2]

Henry, respectifully, it appears to me that Moonraven launched into belligerance first--after English Brian posed a question. His question may have been a little sharp, but it was extremely pertinent and also quite collegial compared to the Moonraven's subsequent ravings. And take a look at her thread history throughout Dave's forum pages. You will find it illuminating.

[Henry_Cowell]

globalnomad,

No, the very first reactions to moonraven's posting criticized her for the content and not for any 'attitude'. EnglishBrian was the first to mock her (the "laboratory mice" thing). And then everyone piled on in attempt to protect the Middle East from rambunctious outsiders. Please read again.

Thanks for suggesting that I research moonraven's posts on other threads. However, I've been following them for a LONG time and have had frequent PM exchanges with moonraven. Yes, they have always been "illuminating", but not in the sense that you intended.

[Cleopatra]

[Henry_Cowell]

You keep on doing whatever it is you're doing in the Gulf, Cleopatra. I'm sorry it's been such a limited, restricted and constrained experience for both you and your students. Maybe, as you say, the next generation of both teachers and students will be able to conduct their educational business at a somewhat higher level. At least moonraven is trying to do so now rather than later. And she's not doing it for the money. Hmmm... I wonder if that's the reason she's successful. I eagerly await her reports from Bahrain, as I'm sure you do.

Maybe we should think of moonraven not as a messenger but as a prophet. Can we so blaspheme here on Dave's? Of course, there have been prophets who have been condemned (and killed) for their messages -- just as messengers have been.

[globalnomad2]

Cleo...Oh, well, Dubai is a lot more than Jumeira Janes in their SUVs. It's so international, glittering, fast becoming a new Singapore or San Francisco. I love the freedom, the great hotels with fantastic food, the lovely Corniche, the greenery, the beaches, and as a man, well call me silly, but I enjoy the freedom to walk and talk with a woman who doesn't necessarily have to be my wife in an abaya! I enjoyed having both women and men colleagues! Well, I don't want to get into an argument about which place is "better." Obviously it's what appeals to us as individuals that matters. You sure are one in a million if you actually like RIYADH! But I think you're cool anyway

However...do not judge a book by its cover, nor the obviously misleading stories you've been hearing about the UAE. Oh, Abu Dhabi is a big NOTHING...I'm talking about Dubai...the jewel in the Middle East crown.

[globalnomad2]

Moonraven as prophet?! Oh, please. Really, if she's a prophet, then I'm Wyatt Earp.

Prophet? She needs two promotions to become a nincompoop.