Job Discussion Forums

[Alfredo Alvarado]

Hello all,

I have been reading this forum for the past few days and have found it very informative as I am about to embark on a job search teaching English in Mexico City. First off, I am a Mexican citizen, but lived mostly in the United States. This will be my first job in Mexico. After waiting four months to receive my IFE, for the past couple of weeks I have running around gathering up my RFC, CURP, IMSS, driver's license, and cartilla militar in order to work here legally. Mexican bureaucracy is beyond insane. I am 33 yrs old, and have a BS and MA from American universities (in sociology), as well as elementary and bilingual/esl certification from the U.S. (which I know is not really valid in Mexico, heck, they're not even valid across states in the U.S.) I originally came down here to embark on a research project which would have assisted me in completing my dissertation, something I stopped for a while but was hoping to restart. But funding problems got in the way, so now I need to find something to tide me over for a year or so until (hopefully) my project can get under way. I am in the Mexico City area. I interviewed at one of the chain schools (Interlingua), but was surprised about how much time they were demanding of me and what low pay there was for it. I know someone here who teaches company classes, and the pay seems much better, until you factor in all the commuting time around Mexico City. I have another interview at another chain school this week, but was looking at what might be the possibilities of teaching at a university (Tec de Monterrey perhaps?) I don't have any ESL certification other than my elem. ed one. And not much experience teaching adults either, unless you count the year I TA'd in college. I have some research experience, but nothing published.
I was thinking of investing on a CELTA to perhaps find a better position come next spring semester, and doing something, anything for the time being to gather the money to pay for it and pay for basic things here. And to be honest, after reading a lot of this forum, a career in this sounds really intriguing to me, especially if I can travel internationally doing this. South Korea sounds like an incredible opportunity. This might save me from having to complete my PhD. heheh. So, I am exploring these ideas from both a short term and long term perspective and would like to discuss some of these issues with somebody. I don't know many people here other than relatives, so if anyone wants to PM me or email me, or heck even call me I would welcome it. I'd really like to bounce around some of these ideas with someone more experienced in this field. I'd also appreciate any tips on what to do for the more immediate job hunt. Seriously, I was hoping a $10k a month salary would not be unreasonable without working from 8m to 10pm 6 days a week (with dreaded split shifts). But I'm not sure it is.
Anybody got any tips? Sorry if I made this post too long, addressed too many different topics, or even didn't pose a specific question at all.

[moonraven]

In all language schools if you are making enough to live on it's because you are working splits shifts and Saturdays, or are directing the school--or BOTH. That's not just in Mexico City, but throughout the country.

Company classes are really only worth it if you are the contractor or the contractor/teacher. At least in Mexico City. You correctly mentioned the time eaten up in getting from Point A to Point B. That must be factored into your wage calculation, as you cannot be working somewhere else while traveling to a company and back. The hours of company classes are also problematic--usually 7 to 9 in the morning--and sometimes early evening.

Most people working in Mexico have to pay their dues--even if they are experienced teachers. That means working one's way up in an organization (I spent 4 years in a Harmon Hall--1 as a teacher and then 3 as director/coordinator/teacher--and that was with a PhD and 6 years of experience--5 in the Us and 1 in Mexico.) Once you have paid your dues getting a job that pays at least a living wage is pretty easy. Sometimes you are even sought out. The downside of having paid your dues and having a certain reputation is that it brings out the "envidiosos", backbiters and low self-esteem folks whom you threaten.

In short, you have to really love Mexico and its people to make the kind of financial sacrifice that working in Mexico entails. The good news is that after a few years you can start saving half of your salary so that you can work half of the time.

[Ben Round de Bloc]

[moonraven]

I agree with Ben Round. Most private schools that you might care to work for in the DF offer salaries in excess of 10,000 pesos per month, too!

And a Monday through Friday work week of approximately 7:30 to 2:30 or 3. You are expected to log about 25-30 classroom hours.

[Alfredo Alvarado]

Thanks for the reply guys.
To answer some of your questions. I have three years of teaching in an elem. school setting in the U.S., mostly bilingual ed (spanish), with some ESL component during the day. I have looked at some of the primary, secondary, preparatoria colegios around here. The pay seems to me really low, only $3,000 to $6,000 pesos max per month, although the hours are good (typical school day). But that seems to me not enough to save anything. I am a native bilingual, Spanish and English.
Granted, I am not used to earning a lot in my lifetime having been a student for most of the time, or a school teacher (even a $30k dollars a year salary gets eaten up by student loans and credit cards and whatnot), or a research assistant. I also know that the school year is about to start, perhaps in a couple of weeks. Getting a public school job seems almost impossible right now, I have no SEP certification and I'd have to figure out how to get involved with the teacher's union. I'm debating between three options, work for a colegio, even for the low pay because it is not insane teaching hours, work for a chain school for maybe double the pay but have no life to speak off, or do private company classes for pay in the middle range, but have some time in the middle of the day to myself. Alternatively I was thinking of getting additional certification, such as the CELTA in order to position myself for better jobs in the future or even go international with this. The only one I am aware of right now has training in November, which would again complicate trying to start a contract and work right now.
A couple of questions, would investing in a CELTA really be worth it? If am planning to just teach in Mexico? How about if I want to branch out of here?
And, I looked at what salaries are like in South Korea and the possibility of being able to save up a lot of money there. I am intrigued about the possibility of working there for a couple of years and then returning to Mexico to live off that, or start my own school, or not worry about the low salaries here. But, I am not caucasian, and my passport is Mexican, not American (my mother is a US citizen however). I am a native English speaker however, and my credentials seem better than most people's (PhD candidate at a prestigious midwestern public university). I am grappling with myself about finishing it up. Dissertations are not easy, and time consuming. I know it's easier to get a university job with just an MA here than in the U.S., and is one of the reasons I explored that idea here, although ideally I would have done it while working in association with a research center in the U.S. (with which I have some experience), but that's where all the funding problems are coming from now. I don't have access to a good network to secure a good university job right now, maybe in the future...that's why I thought ESL teaching may be a better avenue for me right now.
I appreciate people having to put in their dues, I am willing to also. But four years seems like a long time to be merely treading water until something really good comes along. Ultimately I go want to stay/live and work in Mexico, maybe not the D.F., and returning to the U.S. may be an option, but not one I really want to do anytime soon. The ironic thing is, I came here to do a study on legal Mexican migration to the U.S. for work related purposes. Life is funny sometimes.

[MELEE]

Alf,

There is money to be made in translations and interpreting. But the jobs tend to be few and far between. If you got a job at a colegio and was only working say 8-1 you could try to get some translating work for your afternoons.

Also universities might hire you without any EFL experience or training for two reasons, 1 there is a push for more teachers with MAs (a couple of years ago I saw a newspaper article in Morelia that said only 40% of the Michoacana's faculty had more than a BA!!!!) and 2 they don't have to deal with immigracion. My university would want to you have an EFL background, but might have a place for a sociologo, so don't count out that option either...

[miss_betty]

I teach at ITESM/ the TEC.
If you can get a job here, I think you will make $10k pesos. You said you were Mexican? I think that may work to your dissadvantage at many places. But you have an MA which works to your advantage.

I have 20 hrs of classes and am expected to on campus an additional 20 hours. This is okay for me, I am a new teacher and need the time to plan my lessons. On campus also means anywhere, the library, your office, etc. I can deal with 40 hrs b/c I have absolutely no commute and absolutely no work outside of the school. My time is my own. Also, no Saturday's either.

So, if I were you, I would not invest in a CELTA becuase you seem like you have significant teaching experience already with bilingual students. I actually hold a CELTA....the reason I did it is b/c I had no teaching experience with Languages. You MUST market your self. SELL yourself. Never play down anything you did that is remotely significant to the job position. Build yourself up.

i'm not sure if you had any other questions.......you posts are really long. lol Try using paragraphs and bullet points.......it helps get your questions answered. Also, try sticking to one topic per thread. That also helps getting your question answered too.

Don't mean to be stearn......just helpful
Buena Suerte
Changitos!

[richtx1]

[Alfredo Alvarado]

Sorry about the very long posts. I sat around for a few days coming up with lots of stuff to ask while I waited for my account to be activated.

I am currently exploring teaching at some of the chain schools in Mexico. I may end up taking one of those jobs.

About ITESM, a couple of problems I may have right now.

* I don't have my MA on hand right now, it's in the process of being sent to me. I had to fill out some application forms from the university before they'd give it to me. (It's not a terminal degree, more of a compensation prize for not completing the dissertation for the PhD.) Also, it's in sociology, not in any education related field. So, that is one reason I have not tried to apply for a univ. job right now, I don't exactly have all the proper documents on hand. It may take another couple of months for it to pass through all the bureaucratic layers.

* My ESL training was through a university as part of an elementary teacher certification program. Lots of theory involved, not much practical advice given. Of course, my actual experience teaching resembled those theories even less. I never actually taught any English grammar when I was teaching, and most of my lessons were in Spanish. So, it's real world experience, but not much that I see that would fit into ESL teaching as it might be done in either the private schools or universities in a country like this. Still, it's a piece of paper, so it may mean something.

* I am thinking of working at a chain school for the next few months both to get some actual experience teaching ESL, and to wait for all my proper documents to be in place. Then, perhaps look for a univ. job in January? Or whenver the next hiring frenzy would occur. Does that sound like a good plan?

* The pay that you mention at ITESM and the work hours involved sound reasonable. There is a chain school where I interviewed where they pay more, but oh my god, the hours are insane...something like 7am to 10pm, monday through friday, and saturdays as well. 53 total hours a week of teaching for minimum $10k pesos salary, but up to $15k depending on many factors. Sounds like good pay, but there'd be no time left to ever spend any of it (then again, maybe it's a good way to save). Life would really suck doing it like this however.

* I really want to explore the option of teaching in Asia. Maybe if I could accumulate one year of teaching experience here, would that look far more impressive on a resume when I would hit that job market? Even without a CELTA or any other TEFL certification (besides the one I already have).

Anybody can address any of these points of they want.

I just went through a round of interviews at three different chain schools. Maybe I'll make another post about those later, as what they are offering and what they are demanding of me are so different from each other.

Thanks for everybody's comments.

[Alfredo Alvarado]

richtex1

Yes, I don't know where those $10k colegio jobs are. The range I have seen in ads that mention pay is anywhere from $3k to $7k, nothing even close to $10k. Maybe at some of the international schools they pay that or better, but the ones I have contacted have all filled their slots already. Even universities, the pay seems to be about $100 pesos an hour, with maybe 15 to 25 hours a week of teaching. In a best case scenario, the pay tops off at $10k a month.
I think I have come into this job market here at a really bad time, and probably won't get much better anytime soon.

Maybe giving private lessons (to kids even) in small groups might be better if I could establish some kind of reputation. Let's see, charging $30 pesos an hour, 6 students at a time maximum, I could earn $180 pesos an hour, doing it from home, I could hit the $10k a month earnings on a mere 56 hours a month of teaching (which is only 14 hours a week). Now if I could only find enough students to fill up all those slots.

Money, money, money. I suppose anybody doing this kind of work here isn't doing it for the money anyway, still I am hoping to find some compromise here between money earned and hours worked, while still remaining in this country.

Oh, and what's the difference between an employado and an asociado? Which is better, or worse, from both the perspective of the employer and the person working?

[moonraven]

Forget private lessons. Only do those if you have time on your hands and willingness to teach to make some extra money outside of your regular working hours. People do not come, don't pay, etc.

The private schools I was talking about are The ones in Santa Fe (bummer area) and ones like the American School and a few others. They all pay well over 10,000 pesos per month--or at least they have offered me well over that amount.

[miss_betty]

My advice to you first would be to first and foremost...don{t sell yourself shourt. <If you know you have a masters degree, go for a job with a <ma qualification. I have a CELTA degree but do not have it yet either, but <i put downoon every application that <i <have a ><celta. People understand that the paper trail is long.

<<<<<<you seem like you are a kind of reserved person, you need to be proud of your accomplishments and <sell yourself. <quit discounting your accomplishments.

As far as your <esl skills, again , if you have the paper and you go to a chain schoo, THEY will give you the methodology they want you to teach. Also, there is a book called ��<How to teach English< by Jeremy Harmer. Get that book and learn about student centered learning. Make a few lessons using student focused learning, get a few beers and invite your friends over and practice on them. <be proactive. <<<<<<<<<

So, to me on paper, you have an <MA and <esl certification. <but by the way you present yourself on this board, you seems very unsure of yourself. C}mon alberto,...<i need to come down to what ever city you are in and shake you a bit.

<maybe read some <tony <robbins books about personal power.

if you do not have comfort with these methods, maybe a CELTA would give you more confidence. I had a great CELTA experience.

buena suerte alberto

[Ben Round de Bloc]

[Alfredo Alvarado]

Thanks for the advice Betty.

You are probably right about being more positive about myself. I guess I am just too honest with myself in terms of what a piece of paper is and what I actually possess in terms of skills to have this kind of job right now. Not that I don't think I could learn to do just about anything given a little bit of time. I've ultimately been successful in almost any endeavor I have tried.

On a sour note, I received my first rejection today, coming from a major chain school. I had thought everything went well, I aced their screening exam, I did mention my credentials (MA, ESL certification, teaching experience, etc), and the interviewed seemed okay, nothing out of the ordinary. But I was told they were not hiring me, no reason given. My reasoning is, I either said something wrong during the interview I am not aware of (maybe I gave the impression I'd bolt as soon as a better job opportunity would come along), they thought I was overqualified, or...I have no idea. Well, in the end, I probably would not have accepted their job given what they were offering. But still, I thought I'd be almost automatically qualified for most jobs here, and the competition seems mostly weak (most applicants I have come across are native to here, english is their second language, and there is a noticeable accent--things that really don't apply to me, except for being a native by birth).
I've been invited to two other places to participate in their methodology sequence (unpaid) before any official hiring is done. I have to make up my mind fast whether to take one of those or continue searching.

I am also wondering if Mexico City is too tough a market, and I should explore other parts of Mexico. Lots to think about.

[moonraven]

If one of those places is Harmon Hall, you might wanto to consider accepting. Not getting paid for your time while receiving the equivalent of CELTA training (at least when I was giving it) beats paying for it! If the trainer is good, you have little to lose.