Job Discussion Forums

[Byrhtno�]

Moving to Argentina Long-term

I have been reading this forum for a couple of months in preparation for my permanent relocation to Argentina. I lived and worked in Argentina in 2001-2003. I reluctantly returned to the states after my contract was over in February, 2003. I worked for the Argentine Government (not esl). Since returning, I have devoted the past two years to planning and preparing to relocate to Argentina forever. Most of the past two years were spent working long hours (70hrs. week) to prepare financially. I also made a few trips to Argentina to look at properties, and scout out work possibilities. My current occupation(s) in the states are: dog training, Spanish instructor, esl instructor and translator. In Argentina I hope to earn most of my income as a farmer, but I have not ruled out teaching. It seems that most of you guys are just lookinf to stay in Argentina short-term, or maybe I�m wrong. I�m starting this thread to share some of my findings regarding real estate, work and general living with you all.
I lived in and around the Capital Federal for my two years in Argentina, but I was fortunate enough to spent 3 months traveling around the country. Hands down, my favorite province was Mendoza, especially the southern areas like San Rafael. So I�m relocating to the San Rafael area. Last year I meet an American teaching in San Rafael he had rented out a 70m office for $100 and was teaching classes there. I don�t know how much he was making but he had purchased a very nice house with cash.

I have searched through hundreds of web sites, and here are, in my opinion, the most useful. Here is a list of websites for real estate in Argentina, mostly in the Mendoza province.

http://www.alvearmendoza.com.ar/inversiones.htm
http://www.cocucci.com.ar/
http://www.buscainmueble.com/Web/Index.htm
http://www.mendozaproperty.com/properties.php
http://www.farms-in-argentina.com/
http://www.leporepropiedades.com.ar/nuestras_propiedades.htm
http://www.inmueblesargentinos.com/index.htm
http://www.inmobiliariafalco.com.ar/casas.htm
http://www.byronlutz.com/
http://www.euliartepropiedades.com.ar/inicio.htm (currently down)
http://www.argentinahomes.com/

On buying real estate in Argentina by Douglas Harris:
(I also found that this advice works for purchasing a business. I met a German couple in Mendoza that bought a Farmacia for $50,000 by just asking the owner if they wanted to sell, and what was his price)

also remember; EVERYTHING IS FOR SALE! The house someone has just told you is the �Ancestral� home of his family for 10 generations - is FOR SALE!
The �best� way to buy property is to look for areas you like. Then look for houses you might want to buy in that area. Pick a few. Then send in a �spy� to talk to the owner. The spy asks if there is any possibility of selling the property. The owner ALWAYS has a price he couldn�t refuse. Now you have a negotiation started on a property that is What you want, and Where you want it. Often the first price is very reasonable. The story is; the spy has an uncle that wants to move into town. The uncle doesn�t have too much money - but is a wonderful man. Since the �spy� isn�t the buyer, just the dutiful nephew, any underlying problems come easily to the surface. The spy �works� the price - if this is even necessary - and gets a number. At this point, your Lawyer contacts the owner while you look at the extensive pictures the spy has taken. The Lawyer should have a good idea what the �real� price should be in that area or town and he works the price as close to or under that �real� price as he can finally get the actual price set. Now you can come in with the Lawyer and walk the property, if you like it, (you already know about any deficits and problems), you make your offer - which will be pretty close to the �set� number. Don�t insult the owner. You want to be fair - particularly if you want to live in the house. Trying to �steal� a property will just cost you grief, exceeding the number of $$$ you can save. If you don�t like the house, move on to the next. You will like more houses than you can buy. Your savings for using this purchase system will be: inflation by agents of 10-30%, + 6% commission minus your Lawyer fees. A $100,000usd home can cost you less than $70,000usd. This is only a rough estimate - the actual savings may depend on how much you want the $65,000usd 3bed/2 bath house in a great neighborhood with a view of the lake.

The first point of difference is the �Listing� process. Often an agent will in effect �bid� for the listing. The highest price insures getting the listing. So the price is already inflated from the beginning. An agent promising $150,000 for your property is more attractive than the one that says you could only expect $100,000. In the United States there is usually a higher price for the purpose of giving the seller negotiating room, otherwise the seller declares the price as �Firm�. From experience we expect the offer, counter-offer negotiation to reveal the actual price. We do not expect that the agent will decide whether to present our offer or not depending on what he has promised the seller, or worse on what he expects to make as a commission.
I looked at a house in MeliPal a desirable suburb of Bariloche. The price for the large house with a nice view was $135,000usd. I wasn�t very interested and prepared to leave. The agent asked if we were going to buy the house. When I said NO, he went back to the seller. (He returned to me and asked if I would be interested in the house at $85,000usd, because they �HAD to sell, Now�.) The price had just become $50,000 usd better. The house was worth the lower figure but we left anyway. Contrast that deal with a small tourist business that we really wanted. The list price in the catalogue was $130,000usd. The price increased from $130,000usd to $145,000 (right after we examined the property). We offered $120K cash. We were told �No thank you�. A couple of days later as we were getting ready to leave Argentina, a friend told us that our offer had not even been presented to the owner, because the listing agent would only get half of the 6% commission, and 3% of $120,000 wasn�t enough for him. It would be good to mention at this point that buyer and seller split the standard 6% commission - so add 3% to your offer to figure out what you are actually going to pay..

I will post some more on business opportunities when I have time hopful later today.

[k32081]

Isn't it true that the seller(s) don't sell to a buyer [even if they have the necessary $$$] if they don't get a good vibe from them? I heard that this happens often, but not sure.

[nomadamericana]

Interesting. Thanks for your post.... some really good insight.

[Victoria Morley]

I have thought of Argentina on a long term basis as well, but being Brit, how do you go about staying legally? I don't fancy going back to London, not at least for a while, can't imagine myself once again on the tube, rushing to the City, all that corporate agro!! Living in Spain has shown me how nice the Mediterranean, Latin, Spanish life can be. Possibly Buenos Aires or Chile ??



Victoria

[amy1982]

if you're planning to teach english in buenos aires, you'll probably (99%) be spending quite a bit of time on the subway or buses, well-dressed, heading off to businesses to give the executives and mid-level workers a taste of english.

if you really want to get away from that lifestyle, either don't teach in buenos aires or go to a different city... (mendoza and cordoba are two great ones if you're still interested in argentina)

all that said, i LOVE argentina and buenos aires. but teaching english in order to stay is a bit different than studying abroad...

[Victoria Morley]

Cheers Amy.