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Bethany123
Joined: 12 Jun 2005
Posts: 38
Location: Canada
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 Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:35 pm Post subject: i'm 18, what are my options? |
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| i've realised that korea and japan are out of my league and that china or possibly thailand are most likely my only chance (correct?) well that's what everyone's telling me since i only have a high school diploma and the TESL certificate. will employers take advantage of the situation and pay me lower than normal, and will i be safe? i know i won't be able to save a whole lot of money, and that's okay. i want to travel and teach and i have a real passion for it. i understand many people think i'm too young and have nothing to offer these kids, but i'm smart and have a lot of life experience that has made me grow up faster than normal. so if you could give me any feedback or info on my situation, i would greatly appreciate it! |
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Seth
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 575
Location: in exile
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:20 am Post subject: |
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You're asking for trouble, I'd say. You need a college degree and China is getting more and more strict with following proper hiring procedures. Perhaps you could enroll in college and study abroad in China instead? That's what I'd do if I was a young'un. I knew a lot of college students in Hangzhou, China who were doing just that. They had a better time and didn't have to look over their shoulder at every police officer or worry about bosses ripping them off. Which will happen if you work there as you are now.
You'll also be dragging down the pay scale and what little credibility teachers in China have who are trying to make a real living out of teaching. A lot don't take kindly to that sort of thing.
No matter how old an 18 year old thinks they are, they're still 18. Don't be in such a hurry! |
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Chris_Crossley
Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 1797
Location: Still in the centre of Furnace City, PRC, after eight years!!!
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 5:45 am Post subject: You may not have the time to study if you are a newbie |
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| Seth wrote: |
| Perhaps you could enroll in college and study abroad in China instead? That's what I'd do if I was a young'un. I knew a lot of college students in Hangzhou, China who were doing just that. |
Were these college students actually expats teaching English as a second/foreign language? Frankly, unless I had a few years of TESOL experience behind me, I would not even contemplate doing a college degree whilst working abroad. (On the other hand, having started in the TESOL game four years ago, I am going to start a master's degree in applied linguistics totally by distance learning from February 2006.)
It is likely that most newbies to the TESOL game will go and work for a private language mill. When you work in one of those places, you will definitely not have the time to study for a degree. Remember, employers pay you for working for them, not studying for someone else back home. This basically means that you will be up to your eyeballs making lesson plans, flashcards, other visual aids, tapes, etc, etc, for your lessons, which is bound to take up a lot, if not all, of your non-teaching time. Newbies usually have the heaviest workload of all, and the luxury of free time will usually be devoted to relaxing and resting one's thoroughly exhausted body and mind.
In any case, I would imagine that it must be hideously more expensive to study for a college degree whilst working abroad since the university, which awards your degree, is not likely to receive any government financial award because you are away from the country, so you will have to fork out (unless you are lucky to be able to draw on funds).
| Seth wrote: |
| You'll also be dragging down the pay scale and what little credibility teachers in China have who are trying to make a real living out of teaching. A lot don't take kindly to that sort of thing |
Any Chinese school would be only too happy to keep their costs down by hiring an unqualified, 18-year-old. By "unqualified", I mean beyond high school, because a lot of employers want their employees to have college degrees, and, as Seth said, the rules in China are being tightened. One is likely to be at the bottom of the ladder for quite some time if one does not have a degree already before one applies.
One might say that surely one's chances might improve if one is taking a degree at the same time as one is working. In China, there is no guarantee of that happening. China is not the U.S. or Canada or the U.K., and job opportunities here extend really to anything that is available for whatever lamentable pay is being offered.
Not that any poster wants to take the proverbial wind out of any newbie's sails, but one has to live with the reality and "cheap labour" is what some Chinese managers at some private language mills love. One is therefore likely to be paid less for doing the same job as someone who has both a degree and experience, although experience, we hope, does attract higher pay, anyway.
| Seth wrote: |
| No matter how old an 18 year old thinks they are, they're still 18. Don't be in such a hurry! |
I admit that I knew I had no idea at all what I wanted to do at the age of 18 beyond getting a university education. Indeed, I was still at high school at the "old" age of 18 years 9 months (which is when I actually finished!  ). Had I had the same spirit of adventure at that age, I probably would have gone somewhere I thought was "exotic" in order to travel, if not to work!
Since summer is nearly over, I guess that any short-term work is out of the question, since schools will now want people to commit to at least six months (or one semester), if not a full (school) year. You could always try something like six months' worth of work if you can get it, but, as has been pointed out, you might find your options limited if you are only 18 with a high school diploma. Then again, it is not impossible for someone of that age and so qualified to find teaching work.
Good luck in whatever you decide. |
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Seth
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 575
Location: in exile
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:27 pm Post subject: Re: You may not have the time to study if you are a newbie |
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| Chris_Crossley wrote: |
I admit that I knew I had no idea at all what I wanted to do at the age of 18 beyond getting a university education. Indeed, I was still at high school at the "old" age of 18 years 9 months (which is when I actually finished! ). Had I had the same spirit of adventure at that age, I probably would have gone somewhere I thought was "exotic" in order to travel, if not to work!
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Most of the foreign college students I knew in China were studying Chinese, I don't think they were working. I never really asked, but I don't think they were.
My parents pushed me into college at 18, so I didn't have much of a choice but I suppose I'm thankful that they did. I had a fair amount of wanderlust, as well, but I did go to several countries before I graduated. I did a stint in Haiti and was able to get a 6 month working visa to Britain that only college students are able to get in the US. I worked at some stunningly beautiful areas in Scotland and saved a fair bit of money to take home. I used some of the money I made in Scotland to travel Europe.
Most colleges and unis also have extensive study abroud programs, and don't cost much more than normal tuition. I had a friend who studied a year in Japan.
Basically I'm saying you don't need to jump off the deep end to get international experiences, it can be done several other ways without putting yourself at risk. I know I'm better off for doing so, I wouldn't trade my experiences in Europe for anything. |
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Chris_Crossley
Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 1797
Location: Still in the centre of Furnace City, PRC, after eight years!!!
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| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:47 am Post subject: Making big decisions at any age should not be taken lightly |
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| Seth wrote: |
| I did a stint in Haiti and was able to get a 6 month working visa to Britain that only college students are able to get in the US. I worked at some stunningly beautiful areas in Scotland and saved a fair bit of money to take home. I used some of the money I made in Scotland to travel Europe. |
I got a similar six-month working visa when I went to Canada in 1994, although I was actually 28 years of age at that time, so it was ten years after I left school that I got really adventurous. I went firstly to Edmonton, Alberta, and got a job with a vacuum cleaner company as a salesman. I got to see some pretty locations, such as Fickle Lake, up to 200 km west of the city, but I never made a cent out of it, as I never succeeded in getting any sales, much to the frustration of my team manager who could not make any money himself unless my colleagues and I did.
After four weeks of not making any money, I gave up on the idea completely and went to Vancouver just as a tourist. I stayed there for five weeks and simply adored the place. Ever since then, I have harboured a dream (and I hope not a misguided one) of permanently settling in Vancouver "some day", but I have no timetable for that. For now, I am in China and have been here for 3 1/2 years, and it looks as if I may stay at least another four until such time as my little daughter is old enough to start primary school.
I was nearly 36 when I finally seized the initiative and came to China to live and work, but there has not been much time for wandering around and travelling, not with work and, since June 2002, a family. I have seen places like Beijing, Shanghai and Lianyungang (Jiangsu Province) when on holiday, but that is about it. I have not been able to have a holiday this year owing to work commitments, but I have promised my wife that we will have a proper holiday next summer.
Admittedly, I was actually scared of going abroad even for a year when I was at university because I felt that, owing to my relatively closetted upbringing, I was not ready. I had embarked, at age 20, on a degree majoring in German, which would have meant spending my third (junior) year abroad. I changed my major for my second (sophomore) year in order to avoid the compulsory year abroad - and I BITTERLY REGRET IT. 
I think that changing my major and therefore not going to a German-speaking country for a year was one of the worst decisions of my life. Who knows how my life would have played out as a result? As it was, I remained back home while my language student friends invariably had a great third year, during which time I finished my degree and therefore lost touch with those friends who finished their degrees the following year.
Making big decisions at any age should not be taken lightly, whether at age 18, 28 or 68 (I have a friend who is teaching EFL here in Wuhan and he is 68). If you really feel you want to try something without the feeling that you are holding yourself back, then go for it, although, at age 18, people have PLENTY of time to decide what they really want to do. I would say take it slowly at first just to get the lay of the land, then go for something when you believe that this is really what you want to do. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:49 am Post subject: |
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Bethany,
Look at it this way.
Would you want an 18-year-old Chinese high school graduate teaching Chinese to your parents? Or to pre-schoolers? That's what conversation school students are like.
Would you think an 18-year-old Japanese HS graduate is capable of teaching Japanese in your hometown high school? That's what being a real teacher, a JET Programme ALT, or a dispatch company ALT is doing. And, they all need at least a bachelor's degree. |
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Jared
Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 319
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Seth wrote: |
| You're asking for trouble, I'd say. You need a college degree and China is getting more and more strict with following proper hiring procedures. Perhaps you could enroll in college and study abroad in China instead? That's what I'd do if I was a young'un. I knew a lot of college students in Hangzhou, China who were doing just that. |
I saw a few positions in China that don't require a degree at all. From what I understand anyway, a high school diploma and TESOL certificate can get you a Z type visa. (of course you need an employer to sponsor you). And the thing about studying in China, doesn't Bethany need a job to make money? Although speaking of studying in China, is it possible to get a university degree there?
| Seth wrote: |
| They had a better time and didn't have to look over their shoulder at every police officer or worry about bosses ripping them off. Which will happen if you work there as you are now. |
I understand the part about bosses ripping you off, but what's the deal with the cops? What's the problem with them? And one last thing about the visa situation, I wouldn't go in on an L type visa. I'd find a job in China first, then get the employer him/herself to send me the papers and stuff that is required for you to apply for the Z type visa. I'm just not sure what type of documents they need to send you. These are just my thoughts though. See ya.
Jared
p.s. I'm 22 years old (will be 23 in March), am I just as much at risk for trouble as Bethany is with reguards to my age compared to his? |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 4:51 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Although speaking of studying in China, is it possible to get a university degree there? |
When the above poster mentioned studying in China, it would mean studying at a Chinese university where all lectures are conducted in Chinese. Im sure they have programs for foreign students studying Chinese, but she would end up with a Chinese university degree and Im not sure that would be much use for teaching English.
FWIW In Japan there are over 700 universities and junior colleges but only 2 foreign universities actually have campuses in Japan. She would have to study at the branch campus of a foreign university, or conduct her studies by distance learning.
At 18, with limited funds and no financial support from the US, I would say it would be impossible to gain an American degree while living overseas in a low income country.
No matter how old or mature she thinks she is, she needs a university degree to obtain a work visa. The visa gives her official permission to enter and work in the country, even before she starts looking for a job. |
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Jared
Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 319
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| PAULH wrote: |
| No matter how old or mature she thinks she is, she needs a university degree to obtain a work visa. The visa gives her official permission to enter and work in the country, even before she starts looking for a job. |
darn. And I thought I could go into China without a degree. Too much red tape with reguards to obtaining a Z or F type visa. obtaining a Z or F type visa. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 4:02 am Post subject: |
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| Jared wrote: |
| PAULH wrote: |
| No matter how old or mature she thinks she is, she needs a university degree to obtain a work visa. The visa gives her official permission to enter and work in the country, even before she starts looking for a job. |
darn. And I thought I could go into China without a degree. Too much red tape with reguards to obtaining a Z or F type visa. obtaining a Z or F type visa. |
China I hear is possible with no degree. Officially one is needed but the authorities turn a blind eye to it due to huge demand for native speakers.
Don't forget its also a developing communist country and doesnt have many creature comforts, especially in the rural areas. |
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Bethany123
Joined: 12 Jun 2005
Posts: 38
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 2:14 am Post subject: |
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Well I'm in China now, and I'm teaching english. I work for a brand new school in Nanchang, Jiangxi province. I work with two other foreigners, one is 24 with a BA and the other is 22 without any degree. Because I'm young, I work in the kindergarten.. and I love it. I feel like my age is an advantage in teaching young kids. I have lots of energy and the kids are so loving and adorable. However, now I realize how screwed over I really could have got by being so naive. Because I work for a new school, they don't exactly know what they're doing. Our visas are a mess, and most likely my trip will be cut short to 6 months instead of 10, which I'm fine with. But the school is really concerned with their reputation and doing everything they can to make us have a great time here. They've already sent us all to Beijing for a holiday - all paid for. I'm honestly lucky to have this good of a job for the lack of experience I have. None of us have signed any kind of contract, but they are keeping up on most of what they tell us. I have my own apartment, office with computer, I teach roughly 10-15 hours a week, and get paid 5000rmb a month. It was stupid coming here on such a limb and putting so much trust in my employer. It doesn't take long to find out certain characteristics of the chinese people. When I arrived in Shanghai I waited two hours for someone to pick me up, they were late. But who knows what could have happened if they never showed, I would have been screwed. So I've been here two months now. Time flies. Will I do this again in the future? I don't know. I've learned a lot, that teaching isn't as easy as it looks and there's a lot of work and heart that you have to put into it. I know I don't want to teach as a career and am just glad for this experience and rare opportunity that I got blessed with being able to come here. China is truly a different world.
Bethany |
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Gordon
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:09 am Post subject: |
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| I'm glad you have made it and realize how fortunate you are. There is a greater likelihood that you would get screwed than have an honest employer. Still, I'd be careful about your visa and don't take it for granted or put your guard down. |
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therock
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 1266
Location: China
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| Congratulations!!! Well you made it to China and the salary sounds good for the number of hours you teach. Like you said you are working in a new school, so they will probably have no licence to hire foreign teachers. I assume you are working on an F visa. A lot of people do this. It is possible to work in China without a degree but if you want to work legally in some more popular places like Beijing or Shanghai, then you would need the degree. Other provinces may be a little less strict on the degree requirement. |
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schwa
Joined: 12 Oct 2003
Posts: 164
Location: yap
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Bravo Bethany. The tone of your posts is smart & confident & I predict success for you. I dont doubt you'll do well at attaining the credentials you'll need to get ahead at whatever you choose to do |
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profM
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 481
Location: in political exile
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 7:39 am Post subject: |
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An 18-yr. old Chinese high school graduate with very good pronunication and additional adequate language skills can teach English in many legitimate private English language schools in Beijing. Such teachers may start off getting 6-8 hours of classes a week 2hrs. out into the Beijing suburbs branches of the schools and get 50 yuan an hour. Good performance may lead to getting 12 or more hours of classes a week and raises in salary.
A native English speaker with Bethany's obviously very good writing skills and presumably concomitant speaking skills should be able to do fine anywhere in China. |
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