|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Zero Hero
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 944
|
 Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 3:45 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| once again wrote: |
| Maybe, and just maybe, they find it easier because their grasp of English is much better than the faltering grasp of Cantonese that most "fluent" Cantonese speakers seem to grace themselves with. |
Maybe, and just maybe, it is snidey comments such as the above that give you the reputation of the forum's most objectionable poster. I for one do not "grace" myself with a "faltering grasp of Cantonese". In fact, I do not "grace" myself with any 'grasp' of 'Cantonese' (whatever you mean by these two last terms). Rather, the CUHK's examination board 'graced me' with a pass (with credit) in all of their Cantonese four-skill proficiency certificates, with my best results coming in simultaneous interpretation (in the direction of Cantonese-English).
If you consider that standard to be "faltering" then I simply suggest you take it up with the relevant bodies and save your bile for your diary.
We realise interaction is difficult for you, but you really should try.
Last edited by Zero Hero on Mon Aug 08, 2005 5:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
2 over lee
Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 1125
Location: www.specialbrewman.blogspot.com
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 3:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
| That is the best post I've ever read! Talk about bile. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
once again
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Posts: 815
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 9:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
Have you been looking around for posts of mine that you can complain about? That one is almost two months old!!!
Still your reply is most amusing in its non sequitur nature and if it makes you feel better, if the CUHK has said you are good at Cantonese, then that is good enough for me. It was very good of you to let us all know that the Chinese U think you are good at Cantonese. It was especially refreshing to know that your best results came in simultaneous interpretation ( in the direction of Cantonese-English).
But there are a couple of things that trouble me.
| Quote: |
| If you consider that standard to be "faltering" |
Although soothed by your comments, the quote above seems to suggest that you think my words were aimed at you. Rest easy my friend. You are of far less interest to me than your cyber stalking seems to indicate my importance to you.
| Quote: |
| In fact, I do not "grace" myself with any 'grasp' of 'Cantonese' (whatever you mean by these two last terms)" |
If the CUHK think you are good at Cantonese, you should comfort yourself with that. Although you do appear to have some security issues, don't run yourself down so much. Even if you think your language abilities are poor, just remember that the CUHK thought you were really really good at simultaneous interpretation ( in the direction of Cantonese-English). Not good enough for a distinction, but a credit is still very laudable.
Sleep well, our thoughts are with you in your stuggle towards self-respect. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kowlooner
Joined: 24 Jun 2004
Posts: 230
Location: HK, BCC (former)
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 4:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Zero Hero wrote: |
I for one do not "grace" myself with a "faltering grasp of Cantonese". In fact, I do not "grace" myself with any 'grasp' of 'Cantonese' (whatever you mean by these two last terms). Rather, the CUHK's examination board 'graced me' with a pass (with credit) in all of their Cantonese four-skill proficiency certificates, with my best results coming in simultaneous interpretation (in the direction of Cantonese-English).
|
Would I be wrong in that ZH was referring to courses and tests taken at CUHK's Yale-in-China language center? If not, here's a link to the site: http://www.cuhk.edu.hk/clc/
Their Cantonese program shows six levels from raw beginner to assorted special topics for advanced speakers.
From the statement about "a pass (with credit) in all of their Cantonese four-skill proficiency certificates", it woud appear that ZH has either completed the entire curriculum or otherwise been tested and confirmed as having achieved the equivalent.
I was just hoping for a little clarification. ZH, do you mean to say you have completed the entire course (or something equivalent) and passed (with credit) their highest level proficiency assessment? Or did you achieve a pass (with credit) at a lower level? Or was this an entirely different program / testing procedure altogether?
Just interested in knowing. Regardless, congratulations on the level which you have achieved. There are not that many foreigners in HK who bother to get past even a most basic level of Cantonese, though that could be for a wide variety of reasons. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Zero Hero
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 944
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 7:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
The examination procedures, and thus the courses, have changed somewhat radically in the last few years, as anyone who had taken Cantonese-language exams would well know.
I have no idea what the "wide variety" of reasons could be for ex-pats' failure to gain even so much as a precarious foothold on the local language. It is a question of aptitude, though, so I suppose that fact alone would account for many not acquiring any Cantonese to speak of (pun intended).
There are even people who, despite living and working in HK, have not learnt a single word of Cantonese and who, despite having immigrant Mainland wives, have not learnt a single word of four-tone Mandarin either. 'Once Again' would be a good example of such a person.
As I say, it is ultimately a question of aptitude, which I suppose for many people simply rules out learning anything of a foreign tongue. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
once again
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Posts: 815
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| There are even people who, despite living and working in HK, have not learnt a single word of Cantonese and who, despite having immigrant Mainland wives, have not learnt a single word of four-tone Mandarin either. 'Once Again' would be a good example of such a person. |
Wow! Not only do you obsess about me, but still obsessing about my wife.
This really is not all that healthy for you. If you knew how much your posts made me laugh you really would stop making them! I do honestly laugh a lot at them. I am not trying to create an air of nonchalance about it: your posts just are funny. They seem so desperate in a really, well, kind of desperate way. I urge you, for your own sake, to let whatever anger is in your heart towards me go. I am glad you have stopped the abusive and threatening PMs to me. That was a good first step. Now work on not obsessing about me in public and you really will have a much better life. I do genuinely believe that. Your posts show no attempt at wit (or any that is discernible), so I can only assume that you harbour anger for an anonymous person on an internet site. When someone obsesses about somebody they do not know and constantly references things back to them and their family, it is called stalking. I am not that important Zero. This is just a chat forum. Nothing that happens here is worth getting genuinely concerned about.
Live in Peace. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kowlooner
Joined: 24 Jun 2004
Posts: 230
Location: HK, BCC (former)
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Zero Hero wrote: |
| The examination procedures, and thus the courses, have changed somewhat radically in the last few years, as anyone who had taken Cantonese-language exams would well know. |
I haven't taken any Cantonese-language exams, so I wouldn't know, though I do understand the program at CU has been around a very long time. Still, I figure you should be able to venture a guess at where your proficiency level might be on their current 6-level scale. Care to try?
But I'm also interested in what changes they have made in their examination procedures (and thus the courses). I couldn't imagine the CLC making radical changes to a successful program with a 40-year history. What did they change?
| Zero Hero wrote: |
| There are even people who, despite living and working in HK, have not learnt a single word of Cantonese and who, despite having immigrant Mainland wives, have not learnt a single word of four-tone Mandarin either. |
I would dispute that comment. I don't think I've met anyone living and working in HK who hasn't learned at least a little Cantonese. They may butcher the pronunciation, but they try.
Aptitude would play a part, as you say, though I figure much of it has to do with need, time, or exposure. There just isn't a need for many folks to bother with Cantonese in HK, though I admit that's a bit of a weak excuse. Then there are those who don't expect to be here very long, and they would also perceive the need to be minor. Time and exposure are, however, the major factors. Few can afford the time to enroll in a language course, or prefer to spend their non-work time doing something else.
That of course would relate back to perceived need since they could always make the time if they felt it was important enough. Unlike HKers studying English, foreigners don't really see Cantonese as necessary for career enhancement. If anything, it's more for social purposes.
Which would bring us to the next point: exposure. Most foreigners have limited exposure to non-English-speaking HKers, except perhaps in the classroom. Sure, they might need it when trying to buy veggies at the wet market, but how many buy veggies at the wet market when there are Wellcome and PNS grocery stores around every corner? Parties? English. Restaurants? English (unless you venture into small noodle shops). Taxis? English (generally). The chance of regular, intense exposure to Cantonese is, for many, limited, again lowering the perceived need to make the effort to learn in a methodical way.
The situation changes a bit when we cross the border. There is greater need, more chance for exposure, and career prospects are much enhanced if one speaks Mandarin. But in HK, speaking Cantonese is seen as something desirable but in the end a bit of a luxury and hardly useful after one decides to return home. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
shmeagain
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 58
Location: Hong Kong
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
I think ZH is just lonely in Tokyo without the fresh HK air - although not today, seems like someone is cooking something funky in Guanzhou...again.
He has fanclubs all over - there's actually a 4 page bio from other people about him on another website - those people are seriously looking to tear him a new one!
Anyway, I think that it's all moot as he now needs to learn Japanese. (I'm expecting a post saying he already knows it  )
So ZH there's only one question. I think Alphaville said it best....
"...are you big in Japan, tonight.....big in Japan all right...big in Japan la la la la.."?
Seriously though - how are things there? Seems the sky's the limit with your quals? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wildnfree
Joined: 14 Jun 2005
Posts: 134
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
Why dont westerners learn chinese?
Sure, some may be lazy. Others stay short term. But the real reason is simple - CHINESE Dont WaNT TO CHaT TO NON CHINESE IN CHINESE - in other words, racism.
You stay foreign, we stay local. Simple.
I saw it yesterday at the library. tall blonde guy uses very accurate chinese to tal to a local. Local cant string a sentence together in English, or even spea any english, but that doesnt stop him from imitating english sounds . no chinese, than you gwei.
If you dont believe it, try it. go out, chat in chinese and see how many people use chinese bac . Now count how many giggled, pointed and stared and didnt use chinese. which is higher?
Maybe we should give them a taste of their own medicine. Bac in England, USa or Oz - just spea to any asian person in cantonese. balinese, thai, Japanese - who cares? see how segregated they feel.
It is non cause we all spea terrible cantonese and live in denial. Filipinas often spea bad chinese yet they are better recieved when they spea it. Big mystery, eh?
When as ed why they reply to chinese in eng from a westermer, most will go blan . a few will be honest and say "cause you're gwei"
No racism in Hong ong? No racism my rear.
Racism here is not in your face li e it is in the west. People dont go around 'white bashing'. It is subtle, it is under the surface. and that is why it is hard to eradicate. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
newteach
Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 13
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:03 am Post subject: another opinion |
|
|
I too have wondered for years, why when I speak Cantonese, they either ignore me or give me a cold look or bad service.
Finally asked around and figured it out: it's like we're depriving Cantonese speakers of the chance to practice English.
Being half Chinese, this is my conclusion. for now  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wildnfree
Joined: 14 Jun 2005
Posts: 134
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
Please, the old lady at the corner mar et isnt interested in learning English. If they were they would spea to each other in english too. If I am to believe every single person in this city wants to learn english thus doesnt use chinese with foreigners - no offense, but you mustbelieve we are very niave. How does that explain the filipinas situation?
no excuses, no watering it down, just see it for what it is- racism. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
newteach
Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 13
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 11:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
Not at all, I don't think you are naieve. It's me! I am naieve 
And I always find ways to look on the bright side of life  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kowlooner
Joined: 24 Jun 2004
Posts: 230
Location: HK, BCC (former)
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 8:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
If you dont believe it, try it. go out, chat in chinese and see how many people use chinese bac . Now count how many giggled, pointed and stared and didnt use chinese. which is higher?
|
Okay, tried it. The higher count was with the ones who used Chinese "bac". Actually, I can't recall any instances of giggling, pointing, and staring followed by an English-only response. Maybe my practice area is one of HK's rare racist-free zones. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
