Job Discussion Forums

[FGT]

dmb said "There should always be positive things as well as constructive criticism" Doesn't constructive = positive? as in " That was an interesting presentation, had you thought about trying x or y?"

I think the worst is when you have an observation coming and you are required to show the lesson plan to the observer who umms and ahs and lets you get on with it (with no words of warning) and then, when it all goes pear shaped says "you shouldn't have tried it that way!" If they are the expert....!?!

[31]

Every Pakistani you meet is emigrating to Canada

MOD EDIT

[dmb]

I agree with FGT, that is not a good way of observing especially with newbies. If an observer has seen a huge problem in a lesson plan, it is their job to point it out to the teacher. Maybe the teacher has hit upon something new, but it is not often teachers reinvent the wheel.

Anyway I trully believe there is something positive to take out of every lesson.it may be something you think of as obvious but we as teachers all have our weaknesses and strengths. It is the job of the trainer to help the teacher and it is also the job of the trainer to learn from teachers.

[Niste]

Just an observation 31 ? Or liberal-baiting ? Or an in-'joke' ? Silly 31.

[31]

Fact

[dmb]

Not very pc 31. I believe the nationality you are referring to is Pakistani.

[ash]

Hi All,
happily, today was my last day of prac.
My supervisor seems to have come around since I demonstrated that I'd taken his advice. Finally gave me some golden positive feedback in my interim report, though I still need to improve my 'behaviour management'.
I know this is such a newby thing to post here and might seem irrelevant, but hopefully it's useful for folks who haven't experienced teacher-training in Oz. Thanks for giving me feedback on my feedback, Turkey TEFLers
Now I just have to pass the big hoo-ha interview in 2 weeks, where they give me a 'rating'. Panel of 3, 2 of them are satan incarnate and 1 is my prac supervisor. So there it is. A good day

[dmb]

Well done Ash, and good luck for the interview.

[31]

Brit, Scot, Turk, Paki.

[justme]

When I was doing my practicum, observations and feedback were all extremely useful and interesting. The criticism was contructive and put in a way that didn't leave you feeling like crap afterwards. Whether it was peer or prof observations, I felt I gained a lot from it.

When I first came here, I was always willing to be observed-- I knew how hard it is for teachers in training to find willing observees, so I was always happy to let them do it. Only one of these DELTA observers asked me, after the reflection part, how I felt about his criticism, his way of putting things, and if I thought he could have done or said anything differently.

But the DOS and ADOS observations were always a nightmare. I couldn't decide if it was better to have warning or not that they were coming to the class-- warning gave me time to get nervous, no warning doomed the lesson, usually because the students thought it was because they were bad and that they were being observed, or that if they did badly and made mistakes, I would get into trouble.

As for positive feedback, it was a cursory 30 seconds at the beginning of a 1/2 hour or so reflection. The positives were never especially personal or helpful, things like 'You have a good rapport with your students' or 'The students seem to like you' or 'It was a well-structured lesson.' After that, it was all negatives and such nitpicky little things that I never took away any ideas for improving my teaching or my lessons-- I just felt bad and needed a beer and a long rant, same as my co-workers.

Perhaps it was down to the observers themselves, or perhaps it was the atmosphere of the school, but as I result I really hesitate to let people observe me now, which is sad because I used to find it such a good experience...

[dmb]

[ash]

I hope I have a prac teacher under my wing before I forget the experience of being a prac teacher, so I can empathise and provide the necessary support. I missed a seminar for the interview process because no-one told me it was happening. I was supposed to know by osmosis, or clairvoyance or something.

The other thing is, I think when I responded to my teacher's comments, he hated it. I was meant to nod and smile and be silent, and nod and smile and...not turn around and say "well, actually, i think..." I was super diplomatic (for me). But old schoolers don't seem to like having their authoritah challenged.

Also: the theories have changed. What they are teaching in uni, and what teachers are practicing, are quite disparate.

[molly farquharson]

we do teacher observations at ET-- the head teachers do them. There is a form asking for information about what and how the teacher was doing in class. The HTs usually give constructive feedback as well as suggestions. I think it is important, as a lot of teachers are new or new to our system. Teachers are learners too-- they are always learning new ways to teach, even years into their profession. It makes even seasoned teachers a little nervous to be observed when they are also being evaluated, but if they are confident theyare doing a good job, then the observation usually goes well. The teachers who are really new and/or struggling of course get more nervous, understandably. I agree however that the observer needs to be constructive even when there are flaws. The observer should not necessarily be imposing his or her own style, though, as each person develops her own teaching style. Suggestions from more experienced teachers should be given and accepted in the spirit in which they are (should be)intended, which is to be helpful to the teacher and thus to the students and the school.

I was on committees at a community college and a university for doing teacher observation forms as well as student evaluation forms, and it was a very interesting experience. A lot of thought went into deciding what we wanted observed and why. We use a version of those forms at ET.

Observations also maintain a kind of accountability. Teachers close the door and the classroom becomes their realm. The head teacher needs to know what the teachers are doing and to see it in action. It often disturbs the dynamic to have an observer in there, especially one who is observing as evaluation, but short of cameras in the classroom, I don't think there is another option.

I think peer observation is important too. If you know someone is good at teaching something or in a certain way, you should ask to sit in the class. We ask new teachers to observe so they can get a feel for the students and the materials. I wish teachers would observe each other more, actually.

[31]

I think it is important, as a lot of teachers are new

We all know why that is.

[saloma]

We have observations at my school as well, we recently had a huge set of observations done, every teacher - old and new was observed...by me. To be honest, I don't enjoy it and I am pretty soft on the teachers, 4 good points, and two suggestions are my goal. (The old head teacher was highly critical and a few teachers walked after her observations.) New teachers get observed often at the start, so I don't feel i have to address everything.

I find if I ask the teacher at the beginning of the feedback meeting, "So what did you think about that class?" 7 times out of 10 they will touch on what I am about to say, and then it seems less dramatic when I say it.

But accountability is the key here. What would you think of a school that didn't observe it's teachers? Just let them play hangman for an hour? Or worse, had a really good teacher among them and didn't know it?

Another thought: In Taiwan, public schools have jumped on the ESL bandwagon and are implementing English classes and foreign teachers into elementary schools from Grade 4 up. The adult's departments at all our schools have shrunk dramatically, while the kid's departments have swelled, some have put forth the idea that perhaps language schools and teachers will be obsolete here in 10 - 15 years.