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Aristotle
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1388
Location: Taiwan
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 Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:02 am Post subject: Get a Multiple Entry Visa |
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A Multiple Entry Visa
is the best visa you can get just for asking. With a Multiple Entry Visa you can stay unharassed for up to 6 months with extensions and easily downgrade it to an ARC or just make visa runs to stay longer (technically they are not visa runs because you already have a visa). Different Taiwan visa offices have different regulations on how to get one.
There is no such thing as a work visa issued to non Chinese on Taiwan. Your right to work is taken from you as soon as you enter the ROC on Taiwan and given to your employer. The closest thing to a work permit as it is known in real countries is an Open Work Permit but non Chinese on Taiwan will never be eligible for free and equal rights to work under the government that currently claims to control Taiwan (ROC) with the same rights and protections as Taiwanese have in your country of origin.
Taiwan is a non nation controlled by gangsters and governed by an infamously racist and corrupt occupational government.
A Multiple Entry Visa is the easiest to change into an ARC and re-entry permit. Multiple Entry Visa's are usually associated with non Chinese business people. Non Chinese business people are the cash cows for local businesses. Local businesses on Taiwan are notorious for their affiliation with organized crime thus if an immigration officials refuses to grant entry or a visa of any kind to a foreign business person it may have grave repercussions for that government official. Organized crime trumps law and government on Taiwan. In fact organized crime is the most effective branch of the occupational government on Taiwan.
A little preparation goes a long way and a Multiple Entry Visa is the best visa you can get for coming to Taiwan, allowing you the ease of travel and the room to negotiate for a better position.
If you have to make a visa run (most people do) because your ARC application period is longer than your current visa all you need do is go the beach in Thailand or have a beer in Hong Kong then come home and you get another 60 days to 6 months.
A business oriented Multiple Entry Visa gives you more options and subjects people to less restrictions than those that are usually imposed by the occupational government for non Chinese on Taiwan.
Yes, the ROC cronies will attempt to discourage you from getting a Multiple Entry Visa because that is the only option that the occupation government on Taiwan has for discouraging teachers from getting a Multiple Entry Visa for business purposes. Once you have one, any government official who attempts to harass you has to assume they taking a chance with their career and possibly a lot more.
Working with or without the sanction of the occupational government on Taiwan is a personal choice that each of has to make. The fact that the occupational government arbitrarily enforces their racist policies and discriminatory practices on Taiwan against non Chinese with little to no judicial review should be an indication of the reality that is Taiwan.
Taiwan is now and always has been a lawless island ruled by fear an oppression. It is what it is! You can ignore it, bash it, complain about it , fight or like the vast majority of those with the means just leave it. It really doesn't matter because this is Taiwan! If you want to live here you need to find a way to do it, that works for you.
Good luck!
A.
Last edited by Aristotle on Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Pop Fly
Joined: 15 Feb 2003
Posts: 429
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:10 am Post subject: Re: Get a Multiple Entry Visa |
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| Aristotle wrote: |
A Multiple Entry Visa
is the best visa you can get just for asking. With a Multiple Entry Visa you can stay unharassed for up to 6 months with extensions and easily downgrade it to an ARC or just make visa runs to stay longer (technically they are not visa runs because you already have a visa). Different Taiwan visa offices have different regulations on how to get one.
There is no such thing as a work visa issued to non Chinese on Taiwan. Your right to work is taken from you as soon as you enter the ROC on Taiwan and given to your employer. The closest thing to a work permit as it is known in real countries is an Open Work Permit but non Chinese on Taiwan will never be eligible for free and equal rights to work under the government that currently claims to control Taiwan (ROC) with the same rights and protections as Taiwanese have in your country of origin.
Taiwan is a non nation controlled by gangsters and governed by an infamously racist and corrupt occupational government.
A Multiple Entry Visa is the easiest to change into an ARC and re-entry permit. Multiple Entry Visa's are usually associated with non Chinese business people. Non Chinese business people are the cash cows for local businesses. Local businesses on Taiwan are notorious for their affiliation with organized crime thus if an immigration officials refuses to grant entry or a visa of any kind to a foreign business person it may have grave repercussions for that government official. Organized crime trumps law and government on Taiwan. In fact organized crime is the most effective branch of the occupational government on Taiwan.
A little preparation goes a long way and a Multiple Entry Visa is the best visa you can get for coming to Taiwan, allowing you the ease of travel and the room to negotiate for a better position.
If you have to make a visa run (most people do) because your ARC application period is longer than your current visa all you need do is go the beach in Thailand or have a beer in Hong Kong then come home and you get another 60 days to 6 months.
A business oriented Multiple Entry Visa gives you more options and subjects people to less restrictions than those that are usually imposed by the occupational government for non Chinese on Taiwan.
Yes, the ROC cronies will attempt to discourage you from getting a Multiple Entry Visa because that is the only option that the occupation government on Taiwan has for discouraging teachers from getting a Multiple Entry Visa for business purposes. Once you have one, any government official who attempts to harass you has to assume they taking a chance with their career and possible a lot more.
Working with or without the sanction of the occupational government on Taiwan is a personal choice that each of has to make. The fact that the occupational government arbitrarily enforces their racist policies and discriminatory practices on Taiwan against non Chinese with little to no judicial review should be an indication of the reality that is Taiwan.
Taiwan is now and always has been a lawless island ruled by fear an oppression. It is what it is! You can ignore it, bash it, complain about it , fight or like the vast majority of those with the means just leave it. It really doesn't matter because this is Taiwan! If you want to live here you need to find a way to do it, that works for you.
Good luck!
A. |
pic deleted.
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junkmail
Joined: 19 Dec 2004
Posts: 377
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| Aristotle, can you give an example of a 'real country' who will give me an open work permit? I can't think of any Western countries who would do this if that's your implication. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:59 am Post subject: Re: Get a Multiple Entry Visa |
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Let me start by asking if anyone out there has experience with this type of visa. Aristotle has been pushing it for years as it is one way to work illegally in Taiwan. Has anyone actually ever been through the process?
| Aristotle wrote: |
| With a Multiple Entry Visa you can stay unharassed for up to 6 months with extensions and easily downgrade it to an ARC or just make visa runs to stay longer (technically they are not visa runs because you already have a visa). |
So you are suggesting that a visa can be changed into an ARC. Now that would be interesting.
As usual Aristotles post is misleading. There is no way to turn a visa into an ARC no matter what type of visa you may have. The ARC is an identity card that is only valid provided that you have a valid visa to support it - the ARC does not replace a visa!
Aristotle I am pretty familiar with the information out there about visas and the like and I have never seen anything that states that this type of visa can be changed to a resident visa hence ARC within the country.
Please do the respnsible thing and provide a link to your source for this.
| Aristotle wrote: |
| There is no such thing as a work visa issued to non Chinese on Taiwan. |
Following your logic on the above this would suggest that there is a work visa for Chinese on Taiwan, but non Chinese are not entitled to this. Quite clearly Chinese don't need a visa to work in Taiwan so what exactly is your point.
It is true that there is no such thing as a work visa in Taiwan. It is called a resident visa for the purposes of work. A resident visa for the purposes of work is for all intents and purposes a 'work visa'. It is a visa that entitles you to live and work in Taiwan. What exactly is your definition for a work visa Aristotle?
| Aristotle wrote: |
| Your right to work is taken from you as soon as you enter the ROC on Taiwan and given to your employer. |
As I have pointed out many times before this information is outdated.
For a few years now foreigners working in Taiwan have had the right to have more than one employer and change employers fairly easily and without the need for the consent of their previous employer. Aristotle is clearly wrong when he attempts to state otherwise.
| Aristotle wrote: |
| A Multiple Entry Visa is the easiest to change into an ARC and re-entry permit. |
I would like to see some proof that this is the case. Aristotle I think that you own us some documentation that clearly shows that a multiple entry business visa can be exchanged for a resident visa for the purposes of work within the country.
Obviously this is not the easiest route as no one does it. The easiest route for legal work in Taiwan is to arrive on a visitors visa and exchange this for a resident visa once you are here. This is what probably 99% of foreign teachers here do. It is a proven way of getting legal work here.
| Aristotle wrote: |
| A little preparation goes a long way and a Multiple Entry Visa is the best visa you can get for coming to Taiwan, allowing you the ease of travel and the room to negotiate for a better position. |
For those of you who may not know what it means I will explain. In order to get a business visa you would need to get a licenced company in Taiwan to write a letter to the government on your behalf inviting you to come to Taiwan for business reasons. So basically you need to find a company that is willing to lie to its own government on your behalf, even though they will get nothing in return. You then need to take this letter to your visa office and lie to the clerks there and actually fill out and sign a form containing this lie. Once you obtain the visa you are permitted to enter Taiwan, but are not permitted to actually work in Taiwan. So basically you need to go to all of this trouble so that you can come here and work illegally 
| Aristotle wrote: |
| If you have to make a visa run (most people do) because your ARC application period is longer than your current visa all you need do is go the beach in Thailand or have a beer in Hong Kong then come home and you get another 60 days to 6 months. |
Why go on a visa run if you don't have to? They are inconvenient and expensive, and generally come at a time that you can least afford one.
If you arrive on a 60 day visitors visa there will generally be no need for a visa run. You can do everything from within the country.
| Aristotle wrote: |
| Yes, the ROC cronies will attempt to discourage you from getting a Multiple Entry Visa because that is the only option that the occupation government on Taiwan has for discouraging teachers from getting a Multiple Entry Visa for business purposes. |
Yes this is true. The government would discourage teachers from arriving on Mutliple Entry business visas as teachers would have to lie to get the visa in the first place, and once they had got it they would be working here illegally.
To be honest, it would seem to me that only an inept government would allow foreign teachers to get these visas as this is not the purpose for this type of visa.
| Aristotle wrote: |
| Working with or without the sanction of the occupational government on Taiwan is a personal choice that each of has to make. |
This is Aritotle mumbo-jumbo for 'What I have written above constitutes illegal work for foreign teachers.'
| Aristotle wrote: |
| The fact that the occupational government arbitrarily enforces their racist policies and discriminatory practices on Taiwan against non Chinese with little to no judicial review should be an indication of the reality that is Taiwan. |
Aristotle please provide one single substantiated case of this having occured. He won't as there are none. Any foreigner here who seeks their rights under the law is entitled to these rights. I know, I've been there, clearly Aristotle has not. |
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timmyjames1976
Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 148
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| I actually apllied for a single entry and was granted a multiple entry. I don't plan on needing it, but I guess it is nice to have. If everything goes as planned I cannot really see the need for anything more then a single entry. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 4:39 am Post subject: |
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| timmyjames1976 wrote: |
| I actually apllied for a single entry and was granted a multiple entry. I don't plan on needing it, but I guess it is nice to have. If everything goes as planned I cannot really see the need for anything more then a single entry. |
Are you referring to a visitors visa with mutiple entries?
Or are you referring to the business visa that Arsitotle touts on this board? |
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Aristotle
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1388
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 4:46 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Aristotle, can you give an example of a 'real country' who will give me an open work permit? I can't think of any Western countries who would do this if that's your implication. |
There aren't any because in real countries (developed and free) your right to residence gives you the same human/civil rights as everyone else.
The exception being the US H1B visa's which restricts the visa's holders right to work to a specific field and occupation not to an employer because that rings of slavery and indentured servitude.
The H1B visa system in the US is expected to be thrown out and abolished by the US supreme court within the next 2 years as it is unconstitutional and a clear violation of human and civil rights.
Taiwan still maintains martial law for non Chinese on Taiwan and viloations of many of your basic human and civil rights on Taiwan are not subject to review by the courts here or anywhere.
Welcome to Taiwan.
A. |
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junkmail
Joined: 19 Dec 2004
Posts: 377
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:02 am Post subject: |
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Aristotle, go to another Western country and when you get to immigration tell them about your 'right to residence'.
You can get permanent residence of other western countries and Taiwan if I'm not mistaken, but it's a long drawn out process. If you'd ever tried to do this you'd realize how easy and friendly the systems of countries like Taiwan, Korea, Japan etc.. are! To Westerners that is.
Put it this way, it's not a system reciprocated by Western countries to the best of my knowledge.
'Hi, I'm ......... I don't have any qualifications and I don't speak much English but I'd like to work as a Chinese tutor in your country' |
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Miyazaki
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 635
Location: My Father's Yacht
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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several Canadians I've spoken to who are teaching illegally in Taipei have received multiple-entry 3 year visitor visas.
I was surprised they got it.
The first I ever heard about these long term multiple-entry visas was after talking to some new EFL'ers from Vancover last summer.
3 years is a long time.
One guy told me that he didn't even ask for it and didn't even know it existed. He just got it.
I wonder why some people get them and others don't. |
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timmyjames1976
Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 148
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| clark.w.griswald wrote: |
| timmyjames1976 wrote: |
| I actually apllied for a single entry and was granted a multiple entry. I don't plan on needing it, but I guess it is nice to have. If everything goes as planned I cannot really see the need for anything more then a single entry. |
Are you referring to a visitors visa with mutiple entries?
Or are you referring to the business visa that Arsitotle touts on this board? |
It is the visitors visa.
And to Aristotle, civil rights, law, and justice are facades no matter where you go. |
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Aristotle
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1388
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:44 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| And to Aristotle, civil rights, law, and justice are facades no matter where you go. |
Only if you let them be.
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| I wonder why some people get them and others don't. |
Racism, bigotry and ignorance on the part of the occupational government on Taiwan!
Good luck!
A. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| timmyjames1976 wrote: |
| It is the visitors visa. |
OK, so let's not confuse the issue. You are talking about a muliple entry visitors visa which is a relatively common visa that is easily avaialble. It is still a visitors visa however and as has been discussed arriving on a visitors visa is the accepted practice to becoming a legal foreign teacher in Taiwan.
This is even stated in the following quote that comes from the buxiban site:
| Quote: |
| If foreign nationals who have entered the ROC with Visitor Visas are subsequently legally employed in the ROC, they may make the necessary change from their Visitor Visa into a Resident Visa in this country directly. |
The question is - Has anyone here ever obtained a business visa and had this changed to a resident visa in country? I have never heard of this occuring, nor have I seen any documentation that suggests that it is even possible.
Aristotle - You have suggested that a business visa is perfectly acceptable to be changed into a resident visa for work purposes. Please provide a source for this claim. |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 51
Location: Jeonju, South Korea
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 5:58 am Post subject: |
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You guys are confusing me. I am planning on moving to Taiwan and would like to know what I should do legally.
I live in Jeju, Korea and would like to have the best options available to my wife and I.
Mods can you please step in and help me out, or otherwise I will have to go to another board. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
You guys are confusing me. I am planning on moving to Taiwan and would like to know what I should do legally.
I live in Jeju, Korea and would like to have the best options available to my wife and I.
Mods can you please step in and help me out, or otherwise I will have to go to another board. |
The first thing is chill out man. If you think that these boards are confusing then wait until you get here!
It is simple really. Everyone (except Aristotle) recommends arriving here on a 60 day visitors visa for tourism purposes. That is what everyone does, and that is even the process that the government effectively promotes. Just ignore Aristotles posts and you will see that what was once confusing is really actually pretty straightforward. |
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junkmail
Joined: 19 Dec 2004
Posts: 377
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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fiveeagles, I know where you're coming from, I just left Korea myself.
I read these and other boards regularly and the 60 day tourist visa is indeed the common logic.
Get the 60 day visa, find a job and then you can apply for your ARC to work legally.
It's different to Korea, in so far as you don't have to leave the country to change your status once you've found a job; no Osaka visa run.
You can go to Taiwan with no visa and simply get a stamp in your passport, but this is only good for 30 days and cannot be changed for an ARC, meaning you would then have to leave the country to become legally empployed.
Basically, just get the 60 day tourist visa and go to Taiwan.
Is your wife Korean? If so, you may want to seek advice from some of the regulars here about her visa status.
Take it easy. |
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