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amy1982
Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 192
Location: Buenos Aires
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 Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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bah. there's no need...
Last edited by amy1982 on Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Henry_Cowell
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Clearly using the present tense in her first sentence, amy wrote: |
| the thing is, the country is split just about in half of those who support GWB and those who don't. |
In her original first sentence, "amy" used the present-tense verbs is and support, not the past-tense verbs was and supported.
Last I checked, it is August 2005. And the country is currently NOT "split just about in half," as all CURRENT polls clearly show. The country is currently strongly opposed to Dubya's presidency and economy.
If "amy" listened to and read U.S. news reports with accurate comprehension, she wouldn't have written what she did in her first sentence. And if she's an English teacher, she shouldn't have made the error of writing the phrase "in half of those who." It ain't English. |
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Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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Hey team!
Let's not slur each other, in what otherwise might be a pretty interesting discussion.
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| I am used to broad statements about the US that encompass it as 1 evil rather than a mix of good and bad, like everywhere in the world. |
Agreed, of course. I haven't been everywhere else in the world yet, but many many places, and there is no paradise, but no pit of evil anywhere.
The USA is, undoubtably, in many ways, the worlds most powerful country. (Militarily, economically, cultural influence.) And with great power comes great responsibility. Although I do not believe, and would never say, that Americans are worse than anyone else, or that we are the only country whose business interests sometimes BEEP over people in other countries, the fact is, we do it more. Simply because of our size and sphere of influence, we are able to do it more. More people in the developing world feel screwed over by us, because more have been.
And what often riles me up is, mostly, Americans of any political stripe seem to be unaware of this. I have seen too many Americans legitimately surprised and confused when they hear that there are people in the world who hate us. We can't address solutions to the problem until we understand that some people hate us for reasons that are all too real and understandable. Addressing these reasons, rather saying "they're evil, they hate for our freedoms," would be real progress.
About Chile:
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most Chileans believe that they are better off today than the would have been had the country remained communist. And many, many Chileans believe this, whether they will out and out say it or not.
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I don't really know if this is an accurate representation of Chile as a whole, or just those who you knew there. I wonder if a survey or study has been done.
I have never lived in Chile, but have known Chileans in many other countries, and have several close Chilean friends now. Not enough to comprise a representative sample, though, so I think I had best avoid trying to make a statement on what Chileans, in general, think. I really don't know.
But I will say that the fact that some people feel better off after the fact does not, in itself, justify grave violations of international law. (Ren� Schnieder's attempted "kidnapping," for example.)
I wouldn't say that American interests were the only ones involved, of course. The Chilean military, the oligarchy, and several other South American countries were all key players. But "they did it too" isn't much of a legal defense, even on the playground. We are responsible for what we do, even if others did likewise. The fact that others were also wrong, and broke the law, in Chile, does not excuse the wrongs we did or the laws we broke.
Thanks for a thought provoking thread.
Justin
PS Enjoy Santiago, Evansmith. I hear it's great, and will be getting there one of these days... |
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ls650
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 3484
Location: British Columbia
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics. |
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amy1982
Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 192
Location: Buenos Aires
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| my point is that it is important to keep in mind that there are differences of opinion. it's not an overwhelming majority on either side (even though it may seem that way sometimes). the gallup poll released *today* has GW's approval rating at 40% and disapproval at 56%. so for every 10 people you ask that were polled, 4 approve, 5 or 6 don't, and someone isn't quite sure... |
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amy1982
Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 192
Location: Buenos Aires
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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ps. the fact that it is *still* so close boggles my mind!  |
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evansmith
Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 34
Location: Stgo, Chile
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| Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:16 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| But "they did it too" isn't much of a legal defense, even on the playground. We are responsible for what we do, even if others did likewise. |
Agreed. It is nice to be able to share at least some of the blame though...
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I don't really know if this is an accurate representation of Chile as a whole, or just those who you knew there. I wonder if a survey or study has been done.
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True. I did not take this information from any official survey. Maybe "most" is not a good word to use there without hard numbers, but "many" can certainly be used.
Like I said, it is a sore subject, and one that I think most Chileans would prefer not talk about, or remember, for obvious reasons...and a sticky subject especially for people who may have opposed the coup, and/or understood the horror of it, and are in fairly good (usually economic) situations today. And I'm not sure how much research has been done on such sentiments there. I will look into it though.
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| PS Enjoy Santiago, Evansmith. I hear it's great, and will be getting there one of these days... |
Thanks. It is great. Chile has tons to offer.
Regards,
Evan |
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Aramas
Joined: 13 Feb 2004
Posts: 874
Location: Slightly left of Centre
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 2:16 am Post subject: |
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Just to drag this seemingly dead thread back on topic, here's a quote from a BBC article on that extraordinarily silly, attention-seeking, religious nutter:
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| A letter he once signed described feminism as a "socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practise witchcraft and become lesbians". |
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ls650
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 3484
Location: British Columbia
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 2:40 am Post subject: |
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| Aramas wrote: |
| Just to drag this seemingly dead thread back on topic, |
It probably would have been a better idea to let it die. |
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stillnosheep
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 2068
Location: eslcafe
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Aramas wrote: |
Just to drag this seemingly dead thread back on topic, here's a quote from a BBC article on that extraordinarily silly, attention-seeking, religious nutter:
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| A letter he once signed described feminism as a "socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practise witchcraft and become lesbians". |
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But it is, isn't it?
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thelmadatter
Joined: 31 Mar 2003
Posts: 1212
Location: in el Distrito Federal x fin!
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 3:34 pm Post subject: Robertson |
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Face it... every country has got its fruitcakes and the US is no exception. The thing about Robertson (and his buddies like Falwell) is that they have media presence. Im sure Robertson knew he would get the attention he has gotten and I'll bet that was the point. Falwell's done similar things (tho the Tinky Winky thing backfired on him IMHO).
As far as feminism.... lets see, Ive left/divorced my husband (of course that was feminism's fault, he wasnt a jerk at all ) and I am Wiccan.... 2 out of 4.
I joke that I hope to be lesbian in my next life (I strongly believe that is biological, not a choice - after all I didnt "choose" to be heterosexual) either because a) I get fed up with men (sorry guys) and b) to have a wife to do the things I did for my ex would be soooooooooooo nice! Wouldnt mind having that now, cept for the sex part.
Kill my child?... never! Women who do that are insane IMHO, like that woman in TX... sad thing is, I kinda understand what drove her to do it. Im just glad I never was in her position. |
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ls650
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 3484
Location: British Columbia
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 3:49 pm Post subject: Re: Robertson |
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| thelmadatter wrote: |
| I get fed up with men (sorry guys) |
You know that works in both directions, right..? |
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stillnosheep
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 2068
Location: eslcafe
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| Homosexuality beckons Is650, homosexuality beckons |
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thelmadatter
Joined: 31 Mar 2003
Posts: 1212
Location: in el Distrito Federal x fin!
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 2:06 pm Post subject: got me |
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| True, ls650, true |
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Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| It don't mean a thing, if it ain't got that swing. |
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