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Andare
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Posts: 43
Location: Czech Republic
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 Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 2:40 pm Post subject: Any chance of a decent job in Japan? |
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| Hi, sorry if you've heard all of this a hundred times before, but I'd greatly appreciate some advice on this. I've been teaching for just over three years, firstly in Korea and then in Sicily, Italy. My (Korean) girlfriend has just got a one year work visa for Japan and I'd like to join her in Tokyo. I've pretty much discounted the possibility of being hired outside of the country as a) I don't want to hang around at home for another two months and b) I have the impression that NOVA etc are aimed more at teachers who've just graduated university. Basically, I'd like something challenging, with scope for teacher development and a schedule that allows me to prepare properly for classes. I have a BA and a CELTA but I'm aware that in Japan I'll be very much beginning at the entry level. How easy is it to get a job at an organised, professional school? Where are the best places to look? I'm not that bothered about money, just as long as I don't end up out of pocket after the airfare and hotel bills. Cheers. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm not that bothered about money, just as long as I don't end up out of pocket after the airfare and hotel bills. |
Well, you can't have your cake and eat it, too. If you are so eager to fly here and look for work, it will cost you money. Many come and look for the entire length of their tourist visa without finding a job. You should be prepared to bring US$4000-5000 with you. Extremely few places reimburse you for airfare. If you come without a job, you will probably have to stay in a "gaijin house", which may run 50,000 - 70,000 yen/month. This is the same as many apartments, but you don't have to put up the key money deposits, and you can stay less than a year.
| Quote: |
| How easy is it to get a job at an organised, professional school? |
It is not something that can be measured in terms of easy or difficult. How hard will you look, for example? Two resumes sent out per day? Twenty? Will you phone every language school in the phone book, or just answer the ads in The Japan Times?
The answer lies in what you put into it, but for "professional" schools (presumably you mean high schools, elementary schools, junior high, etc.), a lot depends on the contacts you make. Many jobs are not posted, so you will have to look hard for the ones that are.
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| Where are the best places to look? |
Do you mean best web sites, or best cities? Cities with large populations obviously have more opportunities, but you will obviously have more competition. As for web sites, try these.
www.eltnews.com
www.gaijinpot.com
www.jobsinjapan.com
www.ohayosensei.com |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 10:00 pm Post subject: Re: Any chance of a decent job in Japan? |
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| Andare wrote: |
| b) I have the impression that NOVA etc are aimed more at teachers who've just graduated university. |
So does that mean you are too old for teaching at NOVA? I know of teachers there who are in their 30's and 40's. Most are college graduates as the school looks for fresh teachers lacking previous experience and training so they can train them in the NOVA method. With a CELTA you may be considered overqualified but thats only my opinon
| Andare wrote: |
| b) Basically, I'd like something challenging, with scope for teacher development and a schedule that allows me to prepare properly for classes. |
Not sure what you mean by challenging but at the large schools they will get you working 6-7 hours a day, teaching on average 27 hours a week out of a possible forty. Do you want to get extra qualifications? Brainstorm with other teachers on teaching methods? Most schools give you some basic training in their own teaching methods and the use of their textbooks but as far as proper training like doing a CELTA or a Masters course they will not provide you with the time off to pursue if if thats what you mean. Any training you do you will have to come from you, in your own time paid for out of your own pocket.
They will pay you to be on the premises to teach classes and do administration and level checks etc but little else in the way of personal development.
| Andare wrote: |
| I have a BA and a CELTA but I'm aware that in Japan I'll be very much beginning at the entry level. How easy is it to get a job at an organised, professional school? |
Well NOVA has 450 branches, about 2000-3000 foreign teachers on its payroll and a publicly listed company. Berlitz and ECC also have long established reputations as well. Not sure what you mean by professional school, as first and foremost, they are for-profit private businesses in the business of providing language education, with many of the teachers holding professional qualifications such as CELTA and Masters degrees.
Most schools have an established textbook or curriculum that teachers follow, though smaller schools will allow teachers more freedom and independence to create their own lessons and teaching style. A lot will depend on whether you feel comfortable with 'safety in numbers' by following the script at a large eikaiwa, or you prefer teaching according to your own methods or texts.
High schools and junior colleges are a possibility, but to get jobs you will need to develop your networking skills, develop contacts and fine tune your resume and teaching skills. |
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Andare
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Posts: 43
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 10:56 pm Post subject: Thanks |
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| Thanks for the feedback. I knew pretty much all of that already. It's not really a case of wanting to have my cake and eat it, or thinking that I'm too old for NOVA though; it's just that I want to avoid the plug in the lesson and go mentality- I've been around the block enough times to know that schools that proclaim themselves to be in the business of providing a professional education can often be anything but - and save enough over the course of a year to recoup my initial outlay on flights and visa run. I can do without the beers but I do like to travel at least every other weekend. Professional development doesn't really equal extra qualifications, more proper support from academic supervisors, good teaching reasources and workmates who see teaching as more than just a brief interlude on the way to a 'proper job'. That may well be the norm in Japan. That's why I'm asking. |
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Sherri
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 749
Location: The Big Island, Hawaii
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 12:50 am Post subject: |
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| It sounds like you are planning to come to Japan right away. Bear in mind that it is the middle of summer, the o-bon holidays start in August and generally the EFL market is a bit slow right now. The only schools that are hiring now are most likely the "conversation" schools, that is the ones with no term system. Better schools will want to hire new teachers to start in the fall, probably in October. So you can come over now and get a job with a conversation school or you can hold out a bit for a better school. Since you will probably just stay for a year (right?--because of your girlfriend) so you don't really have time to chop and change schools who will expect at least a year's commitment. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 1:55 am Post subject: Re: Thanks |
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| Andare wrote: |
| the course of a year to recoup my initial outlay on flights and visa run. I can do without the beers but I do like to travel at least every other weekend. Professional development doesn't really equal extra qualifications, more proper support from academic supervisors, good teaching reasources and workmates who see teaching as more than just a brief interlude on the way to a 'proper job'. That may well be the norm in Japan. That's why I'm asking. |
I dont want to sound pedantic or sound like Im splltting hairs but I had a little trouble following the above passage- do you mean professional development does NOT involve the above (teacher support, qualifications resources, or JUST qualifications? Not very clear from your post.
I dont etach at a conversation school but my guess is students want to study when they are not working i.e. on weekends and national holidays and in the evenings. Its my understanding NOVA and many of the language schools will not give new teachers the cushy shifts with weekends off. i think you will have to work at least 6 months before they consider you for a shift change or two consecutive days off. depending on the school you teach at the supervisor may only be a couple of years older than you, may not have any formal teaching qualifications but simply have put in the years at the school. I hear horror stories about the personal qualities of some the foreign trainers and supervisors at the larger schools and many of them are not always the best teachers to learn from. If you want to learn how to teach properly, I would suggest enrolling in a formal accreditted course (Trinity, CELTA, SIT) with properly trained instructors that know what they are doing, and are not just pushing the company barrow.
"workmates who see teaching as more than just a brief interlude on the way to a 'proper job'. "
Not sure if this a veiled criticism or people you want to model yourself on... For better or for worse, the large schools encourage a large and constant trun over, a lack of formal training and qualifications so its only natural that such schools will see a revolving door or largely untrained, unprofessional people without a serious interest in teaching other than paying their way through a year or two in a foreign country and being able to fund their travels. Nothing wrong with that of course, but if you put travel and enjoying the culture at the top of your list of priorities you can hardly expect the school to consider you a professional, nor can you expect the same from your workmates and colleagues. This is not a criticism of you, but simply asking that you do yourself what you are expecting of others.
How do you define a proper job? as long as you teach your classes on time , treat your students with respect, and dont make waves with the school administration or students, NOVA ECC and GEOS will pay your salary on time. Is a proper job one that means not working at one of the big commercial schools? Is a proper job teaching on the JET rogram or ata high school where there is a so-called higher perceived teaching status? Everyone talks about proper teaching at professional schools, no one wants to work at the chain schools but seem to lack the definition of what "proper' means or how schools differ from each other. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 2:11 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I want to avoid the plug in the lesson and go mentality |
Then you'd better avoid the majority of language schools and focus on things like elementary, junior high, or high schools. With a BA, you are not qualified for universities.
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| and save enough over the course of a year to recoup my initial outlay on flights and visa run |
If your flight is about 100,000 yen, you can make it up in a month or two of savings if you live relatively thriftily. Visa runs are not necessarily needed anymore.
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| I can do without the beers but I do like to travel at least every other weekend. |
What kind of traveling did you have in mind? It is very expensive to do so in Japan. Hotels run about 8000 yen per night. Trains and airfare are costly, even with package deals. If you work somewhere that is not the "plug in and go lesson" type, are you prepared to have something ready for Monday morning after traveling Saturday and Sunday?
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| Professional development doesn't really equal extra qualifications, more proper support from academic supervisors, good teaching reasources and workmates who see teaching as more than just a brief interlude on the way to a 'proper job'. That may well be the norm in Japan |
Like Paul, I am confused about comments like this. Remember that teaching English can be done at many types of institutions. Eikaiwas have less of a professional type of teacher (generally speaking), and the qualifications (or lack thereof) show this. If you think the majority of teachers in Japan are unmotivated types who are not out to develop their teaching skills, please consider the presence of high schools, universities, elementary schools, and junior high schools.
If you want professional development, it's all up to you, whether you work for a university or an eikaiwa or a business school, etc.
What are you trying to say?
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| I'd like something challenging, with scope for teacher development and a schedule that allows me to prepare properly for classes. |
I work at a high school. There is never enough time to prepare properly, and I put in 12-hour days, 5 days a week, plus most Saturdays I work 8 hours. You squeeze in your planning as best you can. I have worked at the same school for 2 years, both as a FT and a PT teacher, and the planning situation is no different for me. And, my foreign co-workers and I are the most diligent, organized, dedicated group of people I have seen in this business. There just isn't time that you need. Perhaps this is the challenge you are looking for. |
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Andare
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Posts: 43
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 9:46 am Post subject: . |
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Thanks a lot Sherri, that's exactly what I was after. I think I'll stay in the EU and make it over to Japan for a long holiday before September. Very helpful, cheers.
Glenski and PaulH - I do appreciate any kind of feedback, especially as nobody is obliged to reply to any of the posts on here. Maybe you just don't get out enough or something. If, that is, you know what I mean. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenski and PaulH - I do appreciate any kind of feedback, especially as nobody is obliged to reply to any of the posts on here. Maybe you just don't get out enough or something. If, that is, you know what I mean. |
If this is your way of saying "thanks, but no thanks" for the logical information we have provided, then that's your prerogative, but don't be so snide about it. It's true that nobody is obliged to reply here, but one would think that you could see rational experienced advice and take it in stride instead of making such remarks.
To quote your original message...
| Quote: |
| How easy is it to get a job at an organised, professional school? Where are the best places to look? |
It's not easy. Period. For every job opening, there are dozens of applicants.
The best places to look are the web sites I mentioned, plus making contacts.
It doesn't get any "easier" than that. For someone who is planning to come here only to follow his girlfriend for a year, and who doesn't care about money, you have quite a chip on your shoulder about teaching. |
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Andare
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Posts: 43
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 9:59 pm Post subject: . |
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You seem to have assumed quite a lot there, especially given the fact that you've never even met me and couldn't possibly know how long I was intending to stay in Japan. Perhaps we should just agree to disagree on what we consider "logical information." Your final post provided me with all the information I needed; the previous two seemed to tell me an awful lot more about you than the question I'd originally asked. Maybe I should have concentrated less on being polite and more on anticipating the fact that sentences would be pulled apart by people looking for allusions and opinions that were never there. If someone says "I'm not that bothered about money" meaning that the chance to do a job they enjoy is more important than the amount of money they take home each month and the first few sentences of the reply read "Well, you can't have your cake and eat it, too. If you are so eager to fly here and look for work, it will cost you money", then what kind of response do you expect me to give you?
I'll thank you for your advice and accept that any offence given was entirely unintentional. Perhaps you just need to take a look at how you approach queries in future? Bye. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| You seem to have assumed quite a lot there, especially given the fact that you've never even met me and couldn't possibly know how long I was intending to stay in Japan. |
Considering you gave us little to go on, what else do you expect? If you want better answers, provide better background info first.
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| Your final post provided me with all the information I needed; the previous two seemed to tell me an awful lot more about you than the question I'd originally asked. |
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!
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| Perhaps we should just agree to disagree on what we consider "logical information." |
I told you about how much time you'd need to make back your airfare, where to find more info on teaching, what kind of jobs you are qualified for and not qualified for, and gave you some tips on traveling. Can't get more straightforward and logical than that. The fact that you didn't answer any of my questions just hinders me (and others) from giving you more complete answers. Don't blame me/us for your lack of cooperation or clarification.
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| Perhaps you just need to take a look at how you approach queries in future |
Been doing this for over 5 years, Andare, and my reputation stands. Don't bite the hand(s) that feed you, especially if you don't get answers you aren't looking for. The truth sometimes hurts. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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Andare
I just want to add that Glenski has been in japan for 5 years, i have been here for 16, I am married to a Japanese, am a permanent resident teaching at a university. You may choose to disagree but between Glenski and I what both of us dont know about living in japan is probably not worth knowing.
If you want to ask questions and get the answers you want to heare thats your privilege, but dont complain when the answers you get dont appeal to you, especially since both of us have long experience living here, and you have not even set foot in the country.
all I can say is that in 5 years you might thank us when you realise that the truth as we see it much as it hurts, had a grain of truth in it after all. |
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Gordon
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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Andare,
You better get used to a little criticism. You obviously haven't been following this forum very much and not that Glenski needs defending, but he is arguably the most knowledgeable and helpful old-hand on Japan. What people are trying to say to you is that finding a good job is not easy in Japan. It is much harder than Korea and I have worked in both. Rarely do you find a good one off the bat. |
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Andare
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Posts: 43
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 11:48 pm Post subject: . |
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You two need some serious help. If only I'd known that you had to write a full background history in order to satisfy the pompous self-indulgence of a couple of ageing know-it-alls. Why, I would probably have done what I'm going to do now and forget I ever came across this place. On a positive note, I did learn one thing that I didn't already know about teaching in Japan. Just a shame it came from Sherri's single nine line post and not your anal pontifications. Moving on.......
Oh, and Gordon, I already knew that, mate. I'd read literally hundreds of posts on this forum before I registered and was just looking for a little friendly advice - perhaps a single tip that I hadn't noticed before - the same as I would be happy to give to anyone else. Why anybody would have to prepare themselves for criticism just for posing a question escapes me right now! It's all a bit League of Gentleman on here - a local board for local people. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2003 12:55 am Post subject: Re: . |
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| Andare wrote: |
You two need some serious help. If only I'd known that you had to write a full background history in order to satisfy the pompous self-indulgence of a couple of ageing know-it-alls.
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This will be my last post on this matter
Pompous? self indulgent?
I dont need to prove anything to anyone. least of all a wannabe who asked about teaching in Japan when I am already here, supporting a wife and two kids in a well paid position, which may be you in a few years if you end up marrying your girlfriend but Im only assuming there of course..... I could tell you everything you want to hear in a lovey-dovey feelgood tone of voice but I feel I wouldnt be doing you any good by gibving you inaccurate or bad advice based on my (LOOONG) experience in this country. If you cant believe two lifers here with wife and kids here who can you believe?
Aging? thats a new one. Im 40, Glenski is 46. i have two grade school children. when does that make us OLD?
For that matter you are aging too, just like Glenski and I, What are you getting younger ther?
I'd read literally hundreds of posts on this forum before I registered and was just looking for a little friendly advice - perhaps a single tip that I hadn't noticed before
Glenski and I gave you plenty of tips- you just choose to ignore them because you cant stand the heat of the kitchen
- the same as I would be happy to give to anyone else. Why anybody would have to prepare themselves for criticism just for posing a question escapes me right now!
Your questions were badly worded, vague and ambiguous. what do you expect when people ask for clarification. You asked for a job where you could work for a professional company, be treated as a professional teacher get professional self development and have time off to travel. |
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