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Jizzo T. Clown
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 668
Location: performing in a classroom near you!
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 Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 9:28 pm Post subject: Retirement benefits (or lack thereof) in Japan? |
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Hi,
As I'm planning to emigrate to Japan once I've finished my MA in English, TESL; I'd like to know...
Does anyone know if retirement is offered to gaijin? If not through a company, how hard would it be to set up an IRA or something?
I know nothing about retirement, social security, etc in ol' Nihon, so any knowledge you can throw my way would be greatly appreciated!
And yes, I've thoroughly thought this through! |
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The Dog Ate My Keitai
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 67
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 11:01 pm Post subject: Confused |
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So, unless I misread something, in the timespan of a few months, you went from wanting to teach at an American university (May), to wanting to live and teach in the UK (June), to wanting to emigrate to Japan and live/work here till you retire?
Two years' teaching experience and having worked at Nova in Osaka seems a little premature to conclude you might want to live the rest of your life here.
Anyway, to answer your question... You have to pay into the Japanese retirement scheme. It's a mandatory deduction. If you live in Japan for a minimum of x number of years (I think it's about 15) you can later get that money back in the form of a pension cheque. Whether you want to set up something privately (with an investment company) you are free to do so. Overseas would be the only way to go, as Japanese banks offer little to no interest on your money being kept there.
Still, it seems rather strange to me for someone who knows zilch about a country's social benefits system/structure to want to live there for life without even having heard the results to his original query.... But that's just me. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 11:24 pm Post subject: Re: Confused |
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| The Dog Ate My Keitai wrote: |
Anyway, to answer your question... You have to pay into the Japanese retirement scheme. It's a mandatory deduction. If you live in Japan for a minimum of x number of years (I think it's about 15) you can later get that money back in the form of a pension cheque. Whether you want to set up something privately (with an investment company) you are free to do so. Overseas would be the only way to go, as Japanese banks offer little to no interest on your money being kept there.
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The japanese plan is the Kokumin nenkin hoken or National pension insurance. this is separate from the government health insurance. Anyone can join the nenkin but if you want collect a pension you have to pay in for 25 years. It is only mandatory if you are considered full time and (I believe) are paying into the Shakai Hoken with is a combined health/pension package for full time salaried workers. JET teachers automatically pay "nenkin" as they are considered to be public servants but can claim a refund of premiums after they return home.
If you return to your country they will pay a refund of only up to the first three years premiums. Any pension premium paid on top of that is non-refundable, even if you live here 10-15 years. Consider it dead money and an extra tax on your income as you never see it again unless you see out the 25 year term. PS The government is trying to get people to retire here at 60 which means you have to start it before 35 if you want to see any of your pension. Do you want to be teaching English here at the age of 60?
In addition a refund of a pension after a short time means it is not a pension and becomes taxable income. the government will take out 20% in direct tax if you claim a refund after 3 years worth of payments.
There are other problems as it is discriminatory and rigged against foreigners. Japanese can take a break during pension payments and this break is counted when they finally collect their pensions. With foreigners this is not counted and foreigners must pay a full calendar 25 years to collect a pension.
My advice is to either pay into an IRA back home, of if you are not a US citizen consider an offshore investment. i have had an offshore plan since 1992 but many of these plans are not recognised in the US, so you have to be careful about where you put your money, as the IRS will tax your pension income if you bring it back into the US.
The pension scheme here is technically insolvent and its only public saving and taxes that keep the whole thing afloat- its like a massive Ponzi scheme with the premiums being paid now being paid out to elderly people now. There will not be anything left to pay out when you need it in 25 years. I would not rely on the government here to know the best way to invest your money either.
Japanese Pension scam
Last edited by PAULH on Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:13 am; edited 2 times in total |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:47 am Post subject: Re: Retirement benefits (or lack thereof) in Japan? |
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| Jizzo T. Clown wrote: |
Hi,
As I'm planning to emigrate to Japan once I've finished my MA in English, TESL; I'd like to know...
Does anyone know if retirement is offered to gaijin? If not through a company, how hard would it be to set up an IRA or something?
I know nothing about retirement, social security, etc in ol' Nihon, so any knowledge you can throw my way would be greatly appreciated!
And yes, I've thoroughly thought this through! |
Jizzo, I dont want to rain on your parade here, but a Masters degree is not required for a majority of language conversation school type jobs and the money you spent on getting a degree will likely take you a couple of years to recoup your expenses. Most schools simply ask for a BA for the work visa.
You dont say what your actual long term goal is, though I would suggest if you have a Masters you consider high schools or university jobs, though these are only possible if you are actually resident in Japan and have teaching experience in this country.
If you are thinking about pensions in this country I would stay away from the Japanese pension as its unlikely you will be here long enough to collect on it, and based on my own experience, the glory days and the bubble economy are long past. It is unlikely you would get anything more than a one-year renewable contract, up to five years in a high school. That would mean continually job-switching for as long as you are in Japan. that is the situation I am in at the moment, where I get a job, take the first year to settle in, second year i am on top of things and know the students and the third year i am job-hunting again. Forget about publishing and actually doing anything with your students in the last year as your mind will be on other things.
Social security is an oxymoron, for foreigners job security doesnt exist, as long as you have one year capped contracts, foreigners are treated like part time temporary workers who will eventually go home, and an actual pension is not guaranteed. It is up to you to make your own pension and insurance arrangements, becuase no one else will do it for you and I would not trust the present Japanese government with my pension as far as i could throw it.
Just my two cents worth. |
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Jizzo T. Clown
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 668
Location: performing in a classroom near you!
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:12 am Post subject: Re: Confused |
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| The Dog Ate My Keitai wrote: |
So, unless I misread something, in the timespan of a few months, you went from wanting to teach at an American university (May), to wanting to live and teach in the UK (June), to wanting to emigrate to Japan and live/work here till you retire?
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You got it. Your observation skills are keen, doggie boy!
How can you know what you want without first knowing what you don't want?
Thatnks for the input, everyone. |
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Jizzo T. Clown
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 668
Location: performing in a classroom near you!
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:17 am Post subject: Re: Retirement benefits (or lack thereof) in Japan? |
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| PAULH wrote: |
Jizzo, I dont want to rain on your parade here, but a Masters degree is not required for a majority of language conversation school type jobs and the money you spent on getting a degree will likely take you a couple of years to recoup your expenses. Most schools simply ask for a BA for the work visa.
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Thanks, Paul. I'm actually going for my Masters so I can work in a university. So the government still considers uni teachers to be part-time workers who will return home one day? Here in the states, the unis set up a pension plan for professors... |
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The Dog Ate My Keitai
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 67
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:36 am Post subject: Re: Confused |
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| Jizzo T. Clown wrote: |
| How can you know what you want without first knowing what you don't want? |
Sure... I agree... I was fooled by the statements,
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| I'm planning to emigrate to Japan |
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I've thoroughly thought this through! |
That would seem to suggest that your intentions more than just a fancy and that you already know what you want.
Paul: Thanks for clearing that up.. Yes, I work full time (civil servant) so my pension deductions are mandatory... I wasn't sure exactly how many years you had to pay into it, but 25 sounds about right.... In any event, I think it's wise to invest into a private scheme.
Just as a side note to Canadians who may be reading this thread: I've been told by a number of sources that if you have/declare non-residency status, you are not allowed to contribute to a Canadian RRSP... Just some food for thought. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:05 am Post subject: Re: Retirement benefits (or lack thereof) in Japan? |
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| Jizzo T. Clown wrote: |
| [Thanks, Paul. I'm actually going for my Masters so I can work in a university. So the government still considers uni teachers to be part-time workers who will return home one day? Here in the states, the unis set up a pension plan for professors... |
Jizzo
I currently work full time in a japanese university. My first four years i was at a national university in Kyoto and had pension taken out of my salary. I am now at a private university and pay into a private university plan which is tied in to the nenkin. Its just a continuation of what I was on before. What I pay in premiums (about 40,000 a month while my employer pays the other 50%) I amy as well flush down the toilet becuase I will never see it again. Full time employees are required to be enrolled though.
When I said part time I didnt mean literally. About 95% of full time foreign professors are on term contracts here which means in 3 or 4 years you are out of a job. Tenure is possible here but its extremely rare. You need a PhD, dozens of publications and lots of experience. usually you have to wait for someone to die or retire before there is an opening and usually its a matter of knowing someone. Japanese ability is also usually required. Japanese do not think that foreigners would want to live here on a permanent basis and that they will go back home eventually. I have been here 18 years myself and teaching at uni since 1990.
here is a list of unis that offer jobs with unlimited contracts
http://www.debito.org/greenlist.html
Most Japanese universities are xenophobic and conservative places and are leery of offering tenure to non-Japanese. Trust me on that one. I have dependents here, permanent resident status and am still on a one year contract with my university. |
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Jizzo T. Clown
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 668
Location: performing in a classroom near you!
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, Paul. Good stuff.
So here's another question to those of you who have been in Japan for 10+ years:
What do you plan to do in the future? Do you plan to go home or are you so integrated into Japanese society that you plan to stay forever?
It's been my experience that employers outside the ESL field could give two hoots about my time abroad. And while I've got more experience (limited as it may be) than many of the ESL teachers in this part of the state, the best I can do is to secure a part-time job helping the foreign students here at the university (with minimal pay and respect).
Plus, the students you teach abroad are usually upper-middle to upper class, while the students you teach in the US are lower-middle to lower class. I guess what I'm trying to say is that teaching ESL (or EFL, in this case) is more respectable when you do it abroad.
Opinions? |
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kitano
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 86
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:31 pm Post subject: Re: Confused |
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This isn't technically true,
"The pension scheme here is technically insolvent and its only public saving and taxes that keep the whole thing afloat- its like a massive Ponzi scheme with the premiums being paid now being paid out to elderly people now. There will not be anything left to pay out when you need it in 25 years. I would not rely on the government here to know the best way to invest your money either."
The pension program is facing a big challenge because of the demographics but it can't really ever be insolvent. "premiums paid now being paid out to elderly people now" this is how many state pension systems work, this is normal. If they are paying out more than they are taking in and they did not build up or they spent their reserve then they reduce benefits or they chip in general tax dollars, it can't be insolvent unless the whole country goes belly up.
Regardless, I agree, none of us can depend on it in anyway and giving them money is basically throwing it down the toilet. |
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freddie's friend daniel
Joined: 17 Apr 2005
Posts: 84
Location: Osaka-fu
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:23 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Plus, the students you teach abroad are usually upper-middle to upper class, while the students you teach in the US are lower-middle to lower class. I guess what I'm trying to say is that teaching ESL (or EFL, in this case) is more respectable when you do it abroad.
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I'm sorry but what a thing to say!
I disagree 180 degrees with the above statement. Who do you think is likely to respect you more: a rich Japanese housewife who throws you a few yen once a week so she can tell "the girls" she's studying English or an immigrant who is depending on you for a skill he/she can't possibly make a living without?
It doesn't matter who your students are, you have to earn respect. It's not going to suddenly just come knocking at your door because you happen to teach in a university instead of a language school, because you teach middle-class businessmen instead of working-class students or because you spent an extra year or two at university getting an MA. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:22 am Post subject: |
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| freddie's friend daniel wrote: |
I'm sorry but what a thing to say!
I disagree 180 degrees with the above statement. Who do you think is likely to respect you more: a rich Japanese housewife who throws you a few yen once a week so she can tell "the girls" she's studying English or an immigrant who is depending on you for a skill he/she can't possibly make a living without?
It doesn't matter who your students are, you have to earn respect. It's not going to suddenly just come knocking at your door because you happen to teach in a university instead of a language school, because you teach middle-class businessmen instead of working-class students or because you spent an extra year or two at university getting an MA. |
How much money you make is not an indicator of class. You can have rich hicks who are still hicks, even though they have a lot of money
Class is a product of schooling, education, upbringing and lineage, so Im not really sure you have a class-system in Japan. In the past 90% of japanese considered themselves 'middle-class' but now you have widening gaps between rich and poor in Japan.
Even so-called middle class people are having trouble making ends meet, being made redundant and becoming 'working class'
Anyway, how does one know if a student is working class, middle class or upper class by the way they look? A girl who comes with a Hermes handbag and drives a BMW may come from a working class family. You simply can not tell about the backgrounds of your students. |
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Sherri
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 749
Location: The Big Island, Hawaii
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:31 am Post subject: |
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Jizzo T. Clown
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Plus, the students you teach abroad are usually upper-middle to upper class, while the students you teach in the US are lower-middle to lower class. I guess what I'm trying to say is that teaching ESL (or EFL, in this case) is more respectable when you do it abroad.
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I lived in Tokyo for almost 14 years. I moved back to the US last year for many reasons, the biggest being I didn't want to bring up my kids in Japan.
As for your comment above, this has not been my experience. I am very happy in my job at a community college and I feel just as respected if not more than when I worked in Japan. I also am not sure what you are saying, are you connecting the social/economic class of your students to your own job satisfaction? Do you think that teaching people of "lower-middle to lower class" is inferior? Surely these are the people who need us the most.
Sherri |
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Jizzo T. Clown
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 668
Location: performing in a classroom near you!
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| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 1:25 am Post subject: |
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| Sherri wrote: |
I also am not sure what you are saying, are you connecting the social/economic class of your students to your own job satisfaction? Do you think that teaching people of "lower-middle to lower class" is inferior? Surely these are the people who need us the most.
Sherri |
Sorry for the delay in replying. I don't equate my job satisfaction with the economic prosperity (or lack thereof) of my students. I suppose it does make me feel good when the job I'm doing is respected, at least in some social circles.
Teaching in Japan pays considerably more than many of the teaching jobs in the U.S. In fact, most jobs in the U.S. are part-time, allowing no benefits (public schools excluded), and the school/program is usually still in its experimental stages, so you may or may not have the support of the administration. At any rate, you're considered "outside labor" and are treated as such.
In my experience, the hispanics I've taught aren't paying for their classes and they want to earn their G.E.D. Some are committed, others fall to the wayside and you never see 'em again.
So-- teaching hispanic immigrants new to the country...they're great students, but the job has a stigma attached to it, right or wrong.
To each his own, I guess. |
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