Job Discussion Forums

[dmb]

My students have just had problems with the past perfect today. They had problems with ahve in the past perfect as in " I had had breakfast..."
Can you imagine trying to teach

John, where Peter had had "had had" had had "had had". Had " had had" had " had had" printed over it in the final version, nobody would have been surprised.

[biffinbridge]

When did you say your holiday was?

[PanamaTeacher]

what about do do (ex--I do do that!)
then you could dream that do do was raining down on you and you would forget about the evil had had:

do do
do do do do
do do do do do do
do do do do do do do do
do do do do do do do do do do
do do do do do do do do do do do do
do do do do do do do do do do do do do do
do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do
do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do
do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do
do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do
do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do dmbdmbdmbdmbdmbdmbdmbdmbdmbdmbdmbdmbdmbdmbdmbdmbdmbdmb

[Roger]

The problem of the two 'had' is that one is a verb in the past tense, while the other is a participle, and thus, akin to an adjective.
That's one of the problems; it is compounded by the fact that in English the border between participles and verbs in the past tense is blurred - it is blurred in the cases of so-called 'regular' verbs, that is the verbs that take a final -d to mark their past tense form.
If you replace such verbs with any verbs that are irregular, you can easily see the difference.
"had gone', 'had been' etc.
If your students are speakers of other Indo-European languages the difficulty is not that great!

[guty]

Dmb,
Imagine the situation where Jones the typsetter who made the original error was replaced by an equally inept one, called Paul, who, when laying out a description of this very story
Jones, where Paul had had
"had had had had had had had had. Had had had had had had"
had had
"had had had had had had had had. Had had had had had had".
Had
"had had had had had had had had. Had had had had had had"
had
"had had had had had had had had. Had had had had had had".
printed over it in the final version, nobody would have been surprised.

This is really just substituting 14 hads for the original 2, so is still gramatically correct, and of course .......
imagine the story when Paul gets replaced

[bnix]

DMB,an interesting and whimsical post. Panama Teacher,what a lot of"do-do"Only kidding,PT, your post was interesting too,and glad to see "Linda L" is apparently leaving you alone?
Of course in addition to "had had",it is also possible to have a combination like "that that".EG 'He said that that food was good."
I had an interesting class lately(adults) in which we discussed the "most socially acceptable words for the products of body functions".They asked me about "poo-poo and "peepee" as being the most acceptable words in English/.I suppose feces and urine are the MOST socially acceptable....but how many people actually use the former in everyday conversation?I know,I know, a lot of people do NOT talk about it,obviously...but just as an academic exercise,what are your opinions?I am talking about real words,not some private(!) one you might use,but which are not in general usage.And of course,we all know the socially UNACCEPTABLE ones,,,so you needn't bother with them...

The same class also asked me what the author A.A. Milne was thinking about when he named his famous fictional bear Winnie the Pooh...

[PanamaTeacher]

yes bnix it's quiet around here; where's Chomsky Jr.?

[bnix]

Perhaps he is studying transformational grammar.Or thinking up a stinging rebuke.

[tjpnz2000]

dmb wrote:

[JDYoung]

Try punctuating this properly and then answer the question.

that that is is that that is not is not if that that is not is not that that is is not that that is not that that is not

[bnix]

Do you intend to use that one in China? By the way,congratulations on your new job.

[JDYoung]

Thanks, bnix. I'm alternately thrilled and terrified.

I've used that one with my computer students and my tefl classmates. From what I've read it would be a communication stopper in China. Maybe on a cold Shenyang night with my fellow teachers and a few bottles of the antifreeze of choice?

[dyak]

I would have been and maybe should have been having to have had a headache to have been able to have adequately understood all these posts... but have I read all the posts and do I have a headache now?

[Linda L.]

JD I just got back from Shenyang. Attended a Chinese buddist funeral. Maybe I will make a funeral post in China off topic about it later. Shenyang is the 4th largest city in China. Who cares. Better drink plkenty of Snow beer (local brand) to stay warm up there!

Now as to British English. I have heard it said that the Brits invented English (actually they stole it from many other languages and put it together like chop suey) the Americans perfected it and the Ausies bastardized it. My Oxford Advanced learner's dictionary says there are 7 standard Englishes now recognized around the world.

I am reading about regional Englishes and International Standardised English and wonder out loud what is the future of English?

[PanamaTeacher]

often the future can be predicted from a study of the past