Job Discussion Forums

[Yahnena]

I would be grateful for input of those who have tried to ./. and those who have actually done it.

area: beijing (or another big city)

costs:

licences needed?

corruption? is that an issue.

legal aspects:

would you encourage it at this time or suggest to wait a bit?

cheers

[cujobytes]

Forget about it. Not worth the hassle.

[Volodiya]

In every area of life, there are those who actually do the things they conceive of doing, and those who find it too much bother. I don't know if the OP is one of the former, but I wouldn't want to be guilty of discouraging them.

[Babala]

I still was under the impression that a foreigner was not able to be the sole owner of a school but my info may be out-dated. Here's what I do know

- a school must be operating for over a year before they are allowed to hire foreign teachers

-there is a 12 step process to get the licence to be legally allowed to hire FT's

- no one can get anywhere without having some guanxi and us laowi, don't have it

[Volodiya]

Babala, all good points, but they may not all be applicable to this situation.

It seems what the OP may have in mind is a legal structure in which the teachers are also the owners of the business (I say that, because the impetus for this thread was the question of freelancing, raised on another thread. The OP can correct me, if I'm mistaken.) In this concept, the owners would be providing the services, and no teachers would be hired. No wages would be paid; instead, there would be periodic distribution of the income of the business, to the owners. The business would have to comply with all the usual formalities of Chinese Law, as well as those specifically related to the delivery of educational services.

[Yahnena]

what "hussle"? that's exactly what i would like to know, what hussle, is it worth it?

which authority is in charge? where to register?

is it recommendable to do it without the interference of a chinese agent?
(for 2 reasons: 1. money, 2nd: no chinese 'business', just straight forward legal registration).

cheers

[cujobytes]

The HASSLE is the licences, corruption, and things you couldn't concieve of. I wouldn't even consider it somewhere you didn't have POWERFUL guanxi (and there goes a share) How will you get an education licence? VERY difficult. You couldn't do it without Chinese involvement for so many reasons.

[edwinagirl]

The only format open to you is the Joint Venture. No other exists.

No foreigners may own 100% in the education field - it is not permitted and it is not part fo the WTO agreement.

To do a JV, you would need to have a legally registered business off shore. These days that must be a school. If you had good connections to a foreign language school you might be able to act as a conduit to get them into China and acquire a share in that way.

After that you'd have to find local partners (This is where it gets really funny). They would have to have the guanxi necessary to get licensed from the Education Commission in your province. Not easy. That's about the sum of your options.

You could try it without a license, and you might even get away with it for some time (depending on where) but any contractual/ownership agreeemnts you sign (with staff, suppliers, teachers, rent) would nnot be legally binding - they would not even be looked at in the event of a court case. Disaster.


There are foreigners in China who own schools, however. (JVs.) They set them up some time ago and they obviously had some form of connections. Anyone know of any? I'd like to connect with them myself for my research!

[Roger]

[hermoine]

Don't do it! Don't do it! Don't do it! Don't do it!

and especially, and I mean especially, don't do it with a Chinese partner. You are better off shooting yourself now, because after you get screwed in a few months or a few years and lose everything, you will then want to shoot yourself. Why have to go through all that pain and get cheated in the long run?

On a more constructive note:
If you really are suicidal and really want to do it, nowadays, because of all the competition and the EF schools, you are going to need at least 2,000,000 yuan initial investment. You will need to put a lot of money into the business to advertise huge. You will not believe how expensive it is to advetise in china - even a tiny, crappy couple of lines in the newspaper for one day will set you back a several hundred yuan. The key to success is to spend LOTS of money on advertising.

Second, you are going to need to be fluent in Chinese. You cannot trust your partner(s) 100% in business no matter what, if you are sleeping with them or not.

Third, go into teaching children and only teaching children! Adult market s....cks! It's unstable and most FTs couldn't teach adults (despite what they think) even if their lives depended on it. The kiddie market is the only way to go. You just need a whole bunch of young, energetic, green teachers who can withstand waking up and getting to class each morning or afternoon after a night of heavy libations, jump up and down, sing songs and not go mental on you.

Guanxi helps a lot, especially in smaller, more provincial cities. In bigger cities, it's impossible to grease everyone's hand that you need to. In the end, you might have greased the wrong hand and then your in trouble.

You can always use a Chinese front person. Pay them a little bit or use your Chinese wife's relatives' names as the owner of the business on paper, while in reality (your reality, at least) you own and have invested all the money in the business.

Another thing that will help is if you only care about money. If you really care about education and academics and bs like that, well, your in the main purpose is to make lots of money. Are you good at business? or good at teaching?

If you are going to do it, good luck. Really, good luck, because you are going to need it.

[Roger]

And hwere is another angle to put some realism into the general assessment:
According to an article published in the SHENZHEN DAILY dated 31 August, 2005 (not a rag I particularly want to praise) the time for optimism is gone. The headline says it all:

ENGLISH TRAINING MARKET SEES SLUMP.

It's not something that surprises me - but it no doubt will surprise many daydreamers among us.

[Freestyle T]

Forget the laws. Remember, this is China. There is ALWAYS a way around the law. If you have a Chinese partner, he/she is the one able to do the talking and legwork for you, and has the connections. I was working for a guy who got visa authority to hire foreigners after just 4 months, and he hadn't even opened his school - so much for the rules. Insist on handling the accounts to prevent your partner swindling you. Build your own connections outside of what your partner has. It's as simple as taking the local PSB chief and a couple of other bigwigs out to dinner a couple of times. Builds goodwill. Have clear contracts - in particular, the English and Chinese translations should be given equal weighting and you should have the translations carefully checked, preferably by an English speaker fluent in Chinese. Keep an eye on your partner, make sure he/she gets their share but always keep certain secrets from them. It's regrettable, but the only way to maintain control and prevent them from going behind your back to cheat you.

[Yahnena]

SHENZHEN: NO WONDER

FTs have left there because of security reasons, the city is supposed to be a hell whole. wouldn't want to open a school there.

cheers

[Roger]

Freestyle,
it is a bit silly to suggest breaking the law with the help and connivance of Chinese - partners and authorities.

While this is often the way things are done it is also a firesure recipe for disaster.
Youbecome manipulable because you are the outsider who KNOWINGLY cut corners; how can you rpove your Chinese partners suggested cutting those corners?

And Chinese partners often are a liability; some turn out bottomless barrels into which you have to feed bribes.

Sometimes the man at the top of a PSB - the very guy youwined and dined - gets the boot from some higher-up orhis dealings get exposed (you won't be the only one who is exploiting his weaknesses!).
When the Chinese heads roll the heads of foreigners roll too!

Better get involved with a western-owne3d consultancy that knows the laws and can apply pressure on local bigwigs because of their professionalism and respect they have amassed and get from the central and provincial authorities.

[Yahnena]

what i've read so far is pretty discouraging.

cheers