Job Discussion Forums

[garlic and basil]

This is not the line out of movie about Big Brother. It's what the smiling, rather friendly, front desk clerk at a Pham Ngu Lao guesthouse just told me. An explanation is called for...

While searching for short-term accommodation in the tourist ghetto I asked about a super cheapo room, which here is $7 (guesthouses are more expensive than in Phnom Penh though they do have the feature of hot water and fridge for the few dollars more).

"Oh, you won't like it", she gestured down
'It's in the basement?' (I'm thinking cool temperature)
"Yes"

She showed it to me.

It was PERFECT!

What was perfect about it wasn't the room. It was a certain curtain that covered a door going direct to a street lane. A secret, discreet, small exit and entrance, no front desk to pass through. Consider the possibilities... three women and a donkey say my Tijuana friends. I expressed to her my joy at finding a place where I wasn't going to disturb anyone when I came home at 3 a.m. and asked if she had the key to the padlock so I could lock it on the outside when I left.

"The manager won't give it to you. If you have it you might leave without paying."
'But I will be prepaying'
"No, she can't control you if you have the key." (talk about honest!)
'I'm not a heroin addict'
"If you have trouble with the police she will have trouble."

This is a reminder that the authorities want to control your private life if you come to Vietnam. My understanding was that the law was changed - that local guests over the age of consent (Which I presume is 18 in Vietnam) can now enter foreign visitor's hotel rooms. Do they distinguish between fiances and girlfriends? Full-time prostitutes and part-time prostitutes? Quasi-prostitutes who ask for gifts from multiple boyfriends and straight-up honest whores?

Am I going to have to deal with this kind of b.s. in China as well?

Cutting her some slack maybe the management can get in trouble. Maybe, like in Canada,there are laws against operating a bawdy house (in Alberta at least a motel operator who rents to hookers and their customers can be prosecuted)

[Porlestone]

This is a sort of subpoint to your main write-up, but Vietnam is perhaps the worst place in the world I've seen for anything girl related. Whether by coincidence or on purpose Vietnamese society not only personally wants to make sure you aren't playing and funning with their women but they are very bent on "marriage first" mentality. If you ever were to find a girl that is ready for fun, there is nowhere you can go to be alone, everyone around you will make sure you know of their presence, and their 'national unity' and zeal by default negates any fun and romance you would be having with your date.

Vietnam is undoubtedly a suppressive, oppressive, suspicious, inconsiderate, ceaselessly watchful society and people. Simultaneously, they disrespect foreigners but usually show it in their attitude, rather than words. In these regards I would rate Vietnam even worse than Korea because (a) even Seoul isn't as crowded and (b) Korea accepts adult relations and the things they do together as they develop feelings -- in Vietnam it is unacceptable unless the foreigner is going to be the money man for all seven members of the immediate family, and doesn't mind the immediate family having a say in anything and everything, and he guarantees a marriage date. But their nosiness is the worst.

Lastly the pay-for thing is also the pits. I mean the girl has this pressure saleswoman attitude and all she wants is maximum money, and what's up with all the males hanging around anyways?

To be honest I just don't think the Chinese are going to be as bad as Vietnam. Lots of complaints coming out of China, apparently, and I've lived around them before in other places, but they don't have national laws stating that no white man shall ever be alone in a room with an Asian woman, from what I saw.

But yah when I first came to Vietnam many months ago I was kinda like you, thinking "cool... low prices, find me a cool pad to live and go out and cook up some fun when I'm not job searching..." Been many months and can tell you Vietnam has another plan for you, and they have citizens everywhere to make sure it's followed.

[garlic and basil]

I have attempted to send private message five times and a reply three times. Every time I get only a request to log in when I have already logged in. I check my sent box and none of the pm's are there.

Grrr.

[Porlestone]

got your PM and sent one back. I think on some computers seems the user needs to checkmark the "log me in everytime" box under login, got that before myself. anyways I wonder what other guys think about the OPs experience.

[passport220]

Sounds like a drag. I will complete a TEFL course in Thailand at the end of October. I will then move on to Vietnam to begin teaching. I have to say my plan all along is the one you describe Porlestone that is "cool... low prices, find me a cool pad to live and go out and cook up some fun when I'm not job searching..."

Pray do tell, now that the obstacles have become apparent, have you found strategies to overcome? I have always heard that hotels were touchy about female guests in your room after hours. The problem seems greater than I had first estimated. Would you face the same obstacles if you were to live in a private apartment and not a guesthouse or hotel?

Take care,
Pass

[E$L]

Guesthouses in Vietnam want you coming in and out through the front door. That's just the way it is. (Think about it literally: 'guest' + 'house'.)

[nkminh]

Don't know if it's fair to make such statements about VN though. I've been living/working in VN for last 12 months and have not experienced any privacy issues (I'm of VNmese origin). Maybe a bit of local language and knowledge goes a long way.
I do have problems with officials, heaps of them, state and private. And my patience has been put to the test many times. And I've learned to come out of all that a winner (got what I wanted one way or another, but always Vietnamese way).
But I wonder what has kept you there (in VN) for so long if it has so frustrated you ?

[garlic and basil]

Check your private messages.

[Porlestone]

Well Passport, if you've already got your visa and paperwork paid for, or Vietnam is definately a part of your country-hopping plan and the ball is rolling then might as well head over. After all, you will be able to say you saw it and lived it and won't have to let internet guys tell you about how nice the place is. But man Vietnam is no Thailand, for sure! Not even a Korea! From what I hear, maybe not even a China(?).

My biggest advice, of all!: make sure you don't spend like some kind of well-to-do guy. Live at local prices! You've seen Thailand so you've seen how the prices are, but a guy will get into Vietnam and think "man at these prices it's big breakfasts in the morning and lasagne, club sandwiches, and fruit shakes all day". You're blowing lots of cash without even noticing it. Taking some of the tours, renting motorbikes, buying things, it REALLY adds up. Then after 3 months you realize you spent several hundred EXTRA dollars on that crap.

Better to eat light eggs and bread in the morning and noodles / pork & rice at night. Got to keep your daily life rate at 80,000 VND or less! As for room don't pay more than $5 a night, monthly down to $120 or so. Like I said chip away all the extras! Vietnam is not the place to lose alot of cash because after 3 to 6 months one is likely to want to get out of here but cutting it close on the funds!!

Nkminh, I haven't been too tangled up with authorities yet and to put it honestly the immediate society seems like a hell of a lot more hassle than authorities. For now however, what would be gained if I explained why I am currently in Vietnam at this stage? Lastly, I cannot rhyme in with you saying "I've won and came out on top through it all." I simply don't see Vietnam as anything like that. The Philippines yah. Thailand sure. Japan, possible! (By the way none of places of current interest). Even Korea would have to be a step above this place.

[passport220]

Hiya Porlestone:

I hear ya on the budget. I don�t mind spending the extra money if I am enjoying a really good lifestyle. I don�t see the point of spending extra cash on the routine day-to-day stuff.

I am all set up to head out to Thailand to take a TOFEL cert. class due to finish end of October. At that point I am open to go anyplace. I have spent a lot of time in Thailand and would stay and teach if the pay was better. I will go else ware in Asia later, but right now I would like to stay in S.E. Asia. I have a strong general interest in Vietnam not to mention the favorable pay to cost of living ratio.

I�m not sure what my friend E$L was on about. I am not a drunken wh0re monger. I have always read it is not a good idea to bring a working girl back to your home in the first place (loss of face, ripoff, etc. ) . I just would like to be in a place were two adults can let their relationship grow without undue obstacles. Their country, their culture, I can play by the rules. I am just trying to understand what the rules are. If I rent my own apartment, and I am with a young woman who is willing��..what kind of problems would I face sharing some private time? I really want to ask �What�s up? Someone must be getting laid!� but this is a family forum so I shall refrain. So I will simply ask how have others with experience dealt with the obstacles?

Take care,
Pass

[Porlestone]

Yah I think he was making more of a side point. Me too I don't get into the pay thing, I'm into real women and real dating, but the society isn't, except of course for "tea and good night."

Regarding living in a fully regular apartment I haven't tried it yet so guys who have need to spout off their official results. While it may give you more "legal" leverage, I really don't think it would change the world nor improve the situation very much. It's the immediate people around you that matter alot. One stare glance from a person sitting out in front of your building would be all it takes to put a girl off. These people here also regularly shout things out, "hey look at that!" etc. Screaming up from the sidewalk to a person in a 3rd floor window.

The reason I haven't rented a full apartment yet is because there's no reason I trust this society to put one or two months deposit into them plus monthly rent, only to be at risk of being jerked around with laws and "zones" for living. But just paying twice or triple the rent of a room in a guest house is out. In a chilled place, yes, but not here.

[E$L]