|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
bearcanada
Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 312
Location: Calgary, Canada
|
 Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 4:51 pm Post subject: Scam Warning - More websites and Recruiters |
 |
|
Greetings;
These are scam websites run by con-artist recruiters. Avoid them:
www.tefl.cc
www.chinatefl.net
www.teach-in-chinha.net (or teach-in-china.net)
[email protected] (Huapu Education Group)
[email protected] (www.ienedu.com)
[email protected] (www.eiedu.com)
Chinese Campus Online; Shanghai Longman English Success; Xuhui District, Shanghai, China; 021-64274821
www.eiedu.com; [email protected]
Also, avoid a man named Zhou Qiming. He is a shill for several of the websites above, and calls himself 'Bob' and, for all I know, maybe Jim-Billy-Bob too. He tells me all the above sites want to 'hair' (sic) foreign teachers, and that "I hope I can make you friend". I was touched.
You can check some useful scam-avoidance information on my website at
http://www.bearcanada.com/esl/scam.html
Or send me an email to [email protected]
Cheers
Last edited by bearcanada on Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:15 am; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 11:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| bearcanada wrote: |
EDIT #1:
I think also that the Buxiban website (www.buxiban.com) should be treated as suspect. With their very short lists of 'great' and 'black-listed' schools, they have to be playing a game. There must be hundreds if not thousands of small private (and other) schools in China that should be on a black list, and these people would know more than we do. I can't say they're dishonest, but I would be careful and go slowly. |
If you have any questions about the buxiban website I would be happy to answer them. I haven't always been involved with this site but am now and can probably answer any questions that you may have.
Let me first address your concerns above and you can raise any others that you may have later.
You are mistaken in the issues that you raise about the site. The information on that site is still a work in progress and will of course never be complete as the information that comes to us is continuous and requires that the site be continually updated. There is so much information that needs to be added but only so many hours in a day to get it done.
More emphasis is placed upon identifying good schools than outing bad schools. There is nothing sinister in this, we just believe that information about good schools and recruiters is far more useful for people looking for work than information about bad schools. Having said that, any information about bad schools that we are aware of is added to the site as this information is valuable for people researching schools and recruiters.
Let me take a moment to explain the blacklist on that site. The blacklist does not reflect every school that has ever had a bad word said about it. Nor is it meant to. The blacklist is aimed at listing schools that have a history of complaints or any serious verifiable complaints made about them. It is for this very reason that the number of schools on the blacklist is minimal. Just because a complaint has been made about a school does not automatically make that school a bad school that should be avoided by everyone, but repeated complaints of the same nature would certainly affect the rating of any school listed on the site. This is important as the value of the list would be compromised if every complaint resulted in a school being listed on the blacklist.
Having said that, all complaints that we receive are added under that schools listing. Therefore it is important that everyone adds their experiences about schools so that the ratings can truly reflect the schools ability to manage foreign staff.
All of the above is explained on that site so I suggest that you have a read of the information on that site before you make suggestions that there is something untoward going on.
Finally, if you are unhappy about the rating that a school has then you are welcome to send us your concerns and outline your reasons for your concerns. We are happy to accept all reasonable information for addition to the site. This goes for teachers too. The best way to ensure that the buxiban site is a valuable resource is to add your opinions and experiences to the site and help build the site rather than criticize it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bearcanada
Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 312
Location: Calgary, Canada
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 12:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
Dear Mr. Griswald;
In dealing with www.buxiban.com:
[quote]The information on that site is still a work in progress and will of course never be complete as the information that comes to us is continuous and requires that the site be continually updated. [/quote]
The site seems to have comments about scores (if not hundreds) of schools, so it's not as if this is your first day on the job. Plenty of time to have updated the lists.
[quote]Let me take a moment to explain the blacklist on that site. The blacklist does not reflect every school that has ever had a bad word said about it. Nor is it meant to. The blacklist is aimed at listing schools that have a history of complaints or any serious verifiable complaints made about them. quote]
Your above comments apply to the 'Green List' too, and I find this strange. You have only a handful of either Black or Green, and all appear to have been registered by RECRUITERS. Either that, or your presentation is poorly worded.
Unfortunately, every listing has a javascript error so nobody can read any of the comments anyway. You must be aware this has been the case for some time.
You need only read the posts on this or other teachers' ESL sites to find schools (and recruiters) who have a long history of fraud, abuse and serious complaints - some of which have ended in a courtroom.
If you're serious about providing a Black List, then do it properly. Same with a Green List. I agree that a Green List is especially valuable, but you provide nothing much here either.
More than this, it seems that virtually every school listed with comments has a 3-star rating. So everybody is 'average'; not much real help there.
It may be that for the sake of your commercial activities you might want to delete these lists and just do the other parts. It does make your site suspect.
Also, since your firm acts as a recruiter for schools, would you care to tell us here the basis and amount of your remuneration for arranging a contract? Is it the same 50% of a teacher's pay that most recruiters look for? Far too many recruiters also pocket the reimbursement for a teacher's airfare. Can you provide us with the names and email contacts for, say, 25 teachers that you've placed this year, so we can confirm your firm's legitimacy?
On your website you have a list of SAFEA Authorised Intermediate Organisations which are licensed to recruit foreign teachers. And you state, "Any person dealing with organisations other than authorised entities does so at their own risk." I notice YOUR firm isn't on that list.
I have had much correspondence from teachers who have gone to China to find their own jobs directly from a school, and who invariably obtain 75% to 100% more than the recruiters were offering for jobs [u]at the same schools.[/u]
Next, the thing that teachers need most is a Black List of fraudulent, unlicensed and dishonest Recruiters, not schools. If all the dishonest (and greedy) recruiters were removed from the world, the school problems would be manageable.
Lastly, your website says that you are a "website for teachers". Well, the ESL Teachers' Board is a "website for teachers". Your website is for recruiting, as I understand it, and that means it is for you, not "for the teachers".
I thank you for your response, but for the moment my comments stand as posted. I would go slowly and be careful in dealing with you.
Regards, |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 3:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
It is disappointing that you would continue your suggestion about a site that you clearly have no understanding of.
| bearcanada wrote: |
| The site seems to have comments about scores (if not hundreds) of schools, so it's not as if this is your first day on the job. Plenty of time to have updated the lists. |
You seem to be suggesting that there is a final point at which all updates are complete. As I mentioned a site such as the one you are referring to is continually being updated as new information comes to hand. On one hand you are commenting about the large amount of information on that site, and on the other you are suggesting that it is inadequate. What exactly is your point as it is unclear to me?
[quote="bearcanada"]
| Quote: |
Let me take a moment to explain the blacklist on that site. The blacklist does not reflect every school that has ever had a bad word said about it. Nor is it meant to. The blacklist is aimed at listing schools that have a history of complaints or any serious verifiable complaints made about them. quote]
Your above comments apply to the 'Green List' too, and I find this strange. You have only a handful of either Black or Green, and all appear to have been registered by RECRUITERS. Either that, or your presentation is poorly worded. |
Of course the blacklist operates on the same premise that the greenlist operates on. That is just logical.
Please indicate to me a single school or recruiter that you feel should be included in either our schools blacklist or greenlist (with the exception of EH Huizhou as this one is in the works). I welcomed you to do this in my earlier post but you haven't done so.
If in fact the names on either list are all schools or all recruiters then that is a reflection of the information available about them. As I mentioned earlier, and as stated on the site itself, greenlisting and blacklisting does not happen from a single comment, it is a process that is based upon information from more than one source. It is silly to suggest that schools should be included on a blacklist or greenlist just because of a single comment. Feel free however to set up such a site if you feel that this is a better way to do things.
| bearcanada wrote: |
| Unfortunately, every listing has a javascript error so nobody can read any of the comments anyway. You must be aware this has been the case for some time. |
Actually I wasn't aware of that error but now that I am I assume that it will be fixed quite quickly.
You can however access the comments by clicking the 'More Information' link for listed schools which is the link just below the 'Comments' link, so you are incorrect if you think that the comments can't be viewed. Maybe you should spend a bit more time actually researching things before you complain about them.
| bearcanada wrote: |
| You need only read the posts on this or other teachers' ESL sites to find schools (and recruiters) who have a long history of fraud, abuse and serious complaints - some of which have ended in a courtroom. |
To my knoweldge there are more comments about schools and recruiters on the buxiban site than any other site. This includes many of the comments that you refer to.
I stand by the fact that only schools with the worst or best reputations get singled out for inclusion on the specific green and black lists. The fact that these lists are not pages long is in fact a reflection of the fact that this information is carefully vetted and users can therefore be sure that schools on these lists are there for a reason and not just because one person has had a bad experience on one occasion.
Once again I welcome you to contact me either publically here, by PM here, or at that site if there is any information that you have that you feel would affect the rating of schools not listed on that site.
| bearcanada wrote: |
| If you're serious about providing a Black List, then do it properly. Same with a Green List. I agree that a Green List is especially valuable, but you provide nothing much here either. |
I have to laugh at comments like this coming from someone who has offered next to nothing him or herself. You have no idea as to how much work goes into providing the information on that site and until you build a site with more information than that site has I will show such comments the contempt that they deserve.
I am curious as to who you think pays for the time spent compiling the information on the close to 7,000 schools listed on that site?
| bearcanada wrote: |
| More than this, it seems that virtually every school listed with comments has a 3-star rating. So everybody is 'average'; not much real help there. |
You are really showing a lack of research on this topic.
The rating system used on the buxiban site has been discussed here on this very forum at length previously. The information that answers your question is also listed on that very site and you have to 'Agree' to the information before you enter the lists. It is obvious that you haven't taken the time to actually read before you posted, and it is becoming clear that you really have no legitimate complaint but just too much time on your hands.
Briefly, every school and recruiter starts out with a three star rating. A predominance of bad comments will see the listing reflect that by way of a reduction in stars. A predominance of positive comments will have the opposite affect and the number of stars will increase to reflect this.
Surely even you can understand that.
| bearcanada wrote: |
| It may be that for the sake of your commercial activities you might want to delete these lists and just do the other parts. It does make your site suspect. |
You are of course entitled to your opinion, but that does not make your comments correct.
We have been very encouraged by the number of users and schools that refer to our site. Users of course get the benefit of being able to research schools and recruiters in one place. It is not meant to be the be all and end all of their research, but is a good starting place. Good schools also like the site as the ratings acknowledge the work that they have done and the fact that they are running reputable companies. Bad schools and recruiters no doubt hate the site, and some have expressed their displeasure at the ratings afforded to them. As explained to them the ratings reflect feedback from teachers that have used their services or worked at their schools so if they want to improve their rating then they need to improve their services.
| bearcanada wrote: |
| Also, since your firm acts as a recruiter for schools, would you care to tell us here the basis and amount of your remuneration for arranging a contract? |
More misinformation.
One of the main purposes of the site is to enable teachers to make contact with schools directly. This would seem counterproductive if as you suggest we were working on behalf of recruiters. We are not recruiters nor do we work for recruiters. Recruiters do not pay us for recommended listings on our site.
Until a month back we provided no service whatsoever apart from information, but due to repeated requests for assistance we now pass enquiries that ask us for direct assistance onto recruitment firms that we know are reputable. It is up to users to choose to contact schools and recruiters directly through our site or request our assistance. Either way we do not offer recruitment services ourselves.
I am sure that some people are curious about how we generate income as we don't currently charge any money to the schools, recruiters, or users of our site. This pretty much undermines the petty and blatantly wrong suggestions made by the OP that we have a financial interest in what appears on the site. We don't.
We make money through training and advisory services offered mainly to schools on how to make their work places more foreigner friendly. This includes teacher and staff training, dispute resolution etc. No money is generated from the buxiban site itself at this stage, nor has there been in the lifetime of the site. Don't you look silly Mr Bear 
| bearcanada wrote: |
| Is it the same 50% of a teacher's pay that most recruiters look for? Far too many recruiters also pocket the reimbursement for a teacher's airfare. |
It's obvious that you have a problem with recruiters but kindly leave us out of this as we are not recruiters.
| bearcanada wrote: |
| Can you provide us with the names and email contacts for, say, 25 teachers that you've placed this year, so we can confirm your firm's legitimacy? |
No I can't because we don't undertake placements.
I can however direct you to our testimonials page which lists some comments that we have collected over the last year from people who we have helped FREE of charge. Have a gander at this. Unlike yourself these people have actually had dealings with our site and they have benefited from this. I am sure that there are plenty more people out there who have benefited from the existance of the buxiban site, and you are certainly not going to undermine that with your misinformation and blatantly wrong comments about that site and how it operates. You are starting to look even sillier as your ignorance becomes more obvious.
| bearcanada wrote: |
| On your website you have a list of SAFEA Authorised Intermediate Organisations which are licensed to recruit foreign teachers. And you state, "Any person dealing with organisations other than authorised entities does so at their own risk." |
The list is provided with the permission of SAFEA and it is their comment about dealing with organizations at your own risk not ours, so take it up with them. I don't know why you would though as it makes perfect sense to me. Everyone who comes to teach in China does so at their own risk and needs to be responsible for their own decisions. People such as yourself who try to lay the blame on the recruiters that bring them here are pretty pathetic in my opinion as we are all adults, and to work here legally need to be educated adults.
I suggest that you grow up and accept responsibility for your own actions. If you had a bad experience with a recruiter or two then lay you complaint out here. Don't try to lump all recruiters together and label them, and don't try to paint our site as operating unethically when clearly the site is ethical.
| bearcanada wrote: |
| I notice YOUR firm isn't on that list. |
Good on you Inspector Clusoe! Of course we are not on the list. We are not recruiters and the list is for recruiters.
| bearcanada wrote: |
| I have had much correspondence from teachers who have gone to China to find their own jobs directly from a school, and who invariably obtain 75% to 100% more than the recruiters were offering for jobs at the same schools. |
Good for them.
Everyone can come to China and find their own work if they want to, no one is saying that they can't. This doesn't however guarantee that they will have a problem free run.
If people choose to work through recruiters then that is their right. There are some bad recruiters out there most definitely, just as there are some good recruiters out there also. Information such as yours that suggests 'don't deal with recruiters at all' is really unhelpful as it doesn't give people a viable alternative.
The fact is that every year hundreds of teachers are placed through recruiters and have no trouble with the recruiter. If the convenience of having everything arranged by the recruiter comes at a cost then so be it. As long as the teacher gets what they are promised when they get here then where is the problem.
Having said that, before the buxiban site was started there was no resource for contacting schools directly so teachers were virtually forced to deal through recruiters. Since the inception of the buxiban site teachers have now been given the ultimate choice. It is not for you or me to dictate what individual teachers should do, but rather than just complain in the way that people such as yourself do, we have put our money where our mouth is and actually help teachers. When you do the same then feel free to come back to me and we can talk.
| bearcanada wrote: |
| Next, the thing that teachers need most is a Black List of fraudulent, unlicensed and dishonest Recruiters, not schools. If all the dishonest (and greedy) recruiters were removed from the world, the school problems would be manageable. |
Your bias is showing again. So by the above can we extrapolate that in your opinion there are no bad schools, only bad recuiters? Ridiculous. Of course there are some schools that are as bad or even worse than the worst recruiters. To seperate the two and try to make a distinction is pointless, particularly when you consider that some recruiters have schools, and some schools act as recruiters (. Again, you are showing a lack of knowledge on all of this.
What is needed is a reference source that teachers can turn to, type in the name of a recruiter or school that they are considering working for, and read up on comments about that company. This is what the site that I work with does.
| bearcanada wrote: |
| Lastly, your website says that you are a "website for teachers". Well, the ESL Teachers' Board is a "website for teachers". Your website is for recruiting, as I understand it, and that means it is for you, not "for the teachers". |
Yes, ESL teachers board is good, but personally I believe that Daves is better in my opinion. This is a personal thing, but I just don't believe that the quality of the information given there is as good as the quality of the discussion and information had here. Daves has always been, and will no dount always be the foremost discussion board for ESL teachers in China.
Our site is not meant to compete with Daves. It is based around the same topic, but in a different way. I would recommend that any teacher coming to teach in China should make use of all three sites to ensure that they best prepare themself for life in China.
| bearcanada wrote: |
| I thank you for your response, but for the moment my comments stand as posted. I would go slowly and be careful in dealing with you. |
Well I think that I have pretty clearly shown that your advice is flawed, but if people want to heed your warning even though it is based upon your lack of understanding of the site that you are commenting about, then they are welcome to. Caution is a good thing to exercise so I welcome it but there is no reason for them to be concerned. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
myesl
Joined: 04 Jun 2004
Posts: 307
Location: Luckily not in China.
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 2:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
Access Denied!
You can�t access this page for one of the reasons below:
* You are not yet a member of this site. Please register first.
* You have not logged in. Please login now.
* Your computer has been idle for a period of time. Please login again. |
I see buxiban.com is great fun  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Roger
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 1:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Bearcanada owes us a rational explanation why he elects to call chinatefl a rogue website; such blanket statements reflect bias.
I do add a disclaimer, though: if you post your CV there you will certainly be contacted by agents with no legal business basis, working with a mobile phone and possibly during office hours at an university.
Alin Buur is one of those that poach their victims there. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
YearOfTheDog
Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 159
Location: Peterborough, ON, Canada
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 3:57 pm Post subject: Re: Scam Warning - More websites and Recruiters |
|
|
| bearcanada wrote: |
EDIT #1:
I think also that the Buxiban website (www.buxiban.com) should be treated as suspect. With their very short lists of 'great' and 'black-listed' schools, they have to be playing a game. There must be hundreds if not thousands of small private (and other) schools in China that should be on a black list, and these people would know more than we do. I can't say they're dishonest, but I would be careful and go slowly.
You can check some useful scam-avoidance information on my website at
http://www.bearcanada.com/esl/scam.html
Or send me an email to [email protected]
Cheers |
I have to say that I am astonished that you have posted that buxiban is a scam website. I have used there website and services numerous times and they have never let me down. They are hardly a recruiter. What they are is a helping hand in the crazy world of EFL teaching.
Have you even bothered to look around the site or asked others about the site? Apparently not or you wouldn't have posted just bull.
I know for a fact that people trust buxiban because of the time and effort they put into their research and the effort they go to help every single one of the individuals that seek out help from them.
One thing that Clark would never do, let alone buxiban would randomly post on dave's or anywhere else without proof of what they are trying to claim....  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bearcanada
Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 312
Location: Calgary, Canada
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 4:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Roger, your post is nonsense. First, you say:
[quote="Roger"]Bearcanada owes us a rational explanation why he elects to call chinatefl a rogue website;.[/quote]
Then you add:
[quote]if you post your CV there you will certainly be contacted by agents with no legal business basis, working with a mobile phone and possibly during office hours at an university. Alin Buur is one of those that poach their victims there;.[/quote][/quote]
Your own "disclaimer" is a fully "rational explanation" for banning chinatefl. For goodness sake, it's one of the sites Alin Buuer aka Frank Zhang is connected to. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bearcanada
Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 312
Location: Calgary, Canada
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 4:52 pm Post subject: Buxiban |
|
|
Dear YearOfTheDog;
My thanks for your (brief) defense of Buxiban, but my comments stand.
However, you might want to look at my wording again; I did NOT refer to them as a "scam" site - I just said it was suspect and I would be careful and go slowly. That's a significant difference.
Some of you may recall the quote from Hamlet: " ... doth protest too much, methinks". Mr. Griswald insists so strongly (and at such great length, while ignoring my main points) that my comments aren't true that even more people will begin to suspect maybe they are true.
Are you by any chance a staff member or a friend of Mr. Griswald's? Just asking with reason, from your comment:
[quote]I know for a fact that people trust buxiban because of the time and effort they put into their research and the effort they go to help every single one of the individuals that seek out help from them.[/quote]
So you "know for a fact" that "people" trust buxiban because of .... Now how, exactly, would you possibly know how much "time & effort" they put into "research" and how much "effort" they put into "helping every single one" who seeks help?
You suggested I was "posting randomly" and "without proof" of my claim. From the above, apparently, so do you.
I can't say that you are a scam or are dishonest, but I would apply to you the same comments as to buxiban - be careful and go slowly.
Cheers, |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cj750
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 3081
Location: Beijing
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 1:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
| The advice to tread lightly around these kind of sites (all of these kinds of sites..remember...postings here are not verified and just because someone sez that a site is legit)..... is good advice..period. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 3:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| cj750 wrote: |
| The advice to tread lightly around these kind of sites (all of these kinds of sites..remember...postings here are not verified and just because someone sez that a site is legit)..... is good advice..period. |
Surely though anyone who wants to suggest that the site is not legit has some sort of responsibility to provide evidence about why it is not legit. I am not really just talking about their individual opinion, I am talking about some basis for making the claims that he or she makes.
Let me ask a question here.
Has anyone who has ever registered with or used the buxiban.com website ever received any unsolicited contact from a recruiter or a school on the basis of the information provided to that site?
Surely if as has been suggested the site is a front for recruitment activities then the above would likely have happened.
I know for a fact that it has never happened as the site is not related to recruitment, it is dedicated to providing information free of charge, information that people can choose to take advantage of or ignore.
Bearcanada - I took a moment to check out your website and the blacklist that you are putting together (I'm starting to detect an aire of professional jealousy here!) and I would like to suggest that you remove the text related to the information you post about buxiban on your site that states 'Chinese recruiter'. We are not a recruitment firm and such a blatant mistake on your website sort of undermines any credibility that you may be trying to establish.
I would also like to suggest, that in the interests of impartiality that you may like to include a link on your site under the information you post about our site to this very discussion at Daves so that anyone reading the information you have posted on your site can avail themselves of the answers that I have posted here. Surely that would be in the interests of full disclosure and would help to protect any credibility that you are hoping to build.
I must say, that knowing how wrong Bear_canada is in his assumptions about the buxiban website, it certainly calls into question the value of the other information he has posted. I know that he has not contacted us with any questions about how that site operates but has instead chosen to develop an opinion based upon his 'biased' suspicions. Biased as it seems that he is trying to put together his own rag-tag blacklist. His lack of research of the buxiban site certainly calls into question the validity of his comments about other companies!
Finally, thanks Yearofthedog, your comments are appreciated and right on the mark! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Roger
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 3:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
| bearcanada wrote: |
Roger, your post is nonsense. First, you say:
| Roger wrote: |
| Bearcanada owes us a rational explanation why he elects to call chinatefl a rogue website;. |
. |
Bearcanada,
you are making nothing but blanket statements based entirely on your prejudices including, it would appear, against me.
Engage in some real adult talk, can you?
Chinatefl has been around for many years and your claim is a gargantuan exaggeration. Are you trying to mislead the audience here? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
YearOfTheDog
Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 159
Location: Peterborough, ON, Canada
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 4:22 am Post subject: Re: Buxiban |
|
|
| bearcanada wrote: |
Dear YearOfTheDog;
My thanks for your (brief) defense of Buxiban, but my comments stand.
However, you might want to look at my wording again; I did NOT refer to them as a "scam" site - I just said it was suspect and I would be careful and go slowly. That's a significant difference.
Some of you may recall the quote from Hamlet: " ... doth protest too much, methinks". Mr. Griswald insists so strongly (and at such great length, while ignoring my main points) that my comments aren't true that even more people will begin to suspect maybe they are true.
Are you by any chance a staff member or a friend of Mr. Griswald's? Just asking with reason, from your comment:
| Quote: |
| I know for a fact that people trust buxiban because of the time and effort they put into their research and the effort they go to help every single one of the individuals that seek out help from them. |
So you "know for a fact" that "people" trust buxiban because of .... Now how, exactly, would you possibly know how much "time & effort" they put into "research" and how much "effort" they put into "helping every single one" who seeks help?
You suggested I was "posting randomly" and "without proof" of my claim. From the above, apparently, so do you.
I can't say that you are a scam or are dishonest, but I would apply to you the same comments as to buxiban - be careful and go slowly.
Cheers, |
You are a funny man. I don't work for buxiban. I have used their services numerous times as have most of my co-workers. They are one of a few good sites out there that actually have good intentionsandd here you are posting that they are recruiters anound can't be trusted. When in actual fact you have no idea.
It seems to be, you seem to be one of those people that don't think you should post anything positive.
Maybe we should post a warning about your site. I would say Tread Carefully at www.bearcanada.com it seems the webmaster lacks research and reasons for his posting other than plain bias. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
YearOfTheDog
Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 159
Location: Peterborough, ON, Canada
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 4:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| bearcanada wrote: |
Roger, your post is nonsense. First, you say:
| Roger wrote: |
| Bearcanada owes us a rational explanation why he elects to call chinatefl a rogue website;. |
Then you add:
| Quote: |
| if you post your CV there you will certainly be contacted by agents with no legal business basis, working with a mobile phone and possibly during office hours at an university. Alin Buur is one of those that poach their victims there;. |
|
Your own "disclaimer" is a fully "rational explanation" for banning chinatefl. For goodness sake, it's one of the sites Alin Buuer aka Frank Zhang is connected to.[/quote]
So, because there are a couple of bad apples posting on the site. It should be avoided. We should ignore this site eventhough it has 1000's of legitiment links and job offers.
If we ignored all sites that had one bad company posting you would hardly have anywhere to look for work at all. Matter of fact we would have to ban Dave's...God Forbid. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bearcanada
Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 312
Location: Calgary, Canada
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 5:59 am Post subject: Why are we here? |
|
|
Gentlemen;
Let's try to remember that the origin of these posts is to protect teachers, especially the new, young and inexperienced, from the dispiriting, empty, and sometimes almost tragic consequences of dealing with the unscrupulous.
These latter are recruiters and schools who, in the fine words of one teacher, ".... look on education as a lucrative variation on pirated DVDs."
In his words, "More tragic yet, is that the genuine hopes of the recently rich (though often barely literate) parents are exploited by the cunning sharks who understand these people's aspirations and know how to lie in just the right way."
In a context like this where thousands of trusting individuals have been cheated and treated badly, excessive caution is not a mistake.
My comments stand, as does my advice:
Stay away from recruiters
Avoid 'private' schools
Don't go to an unlicensed school
Check references of recruiters
Check references of schools
Get your "Z" visa before you leave
Have your airfare paid before you leave or on arrival.
If these fundamentals are adhered to, probably a full 80% of all serious troubles would be avoided and, in the words of the same teacher above, "these useless and immoral operators would be consigned to the rubbish heap where they belong."
Regards, |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
