Job Discussion Forums

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

I wonder if either Andrew Dice Clay or Bob Saget ever did any TEFLing?

valley_girl · Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:59 pm Post subject:

Two words: class and professionalism. In my opinion, a teacher telling "dirty" jokes in class shows a complete lack of both.

dmb · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 8397

Lawyers, politicians, doctors, accountants,bankers, etc don't tell 'dirty' jokes? As mentioned before it is all about knowing your audience.
Last week, one of my 1-1 students, president of one of the largest private banks in Turkey, told me a joke that can't be repeated here. Does he have no class or professionalism? Or just a sense of humour(between guys, of course)

valley_girl · Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:11 pm Post subject:

Jokes about women's "mammaries" don't belong in the classroom, nor in any workplace. 'Know your audience' is not nearly as important in this case as 'know your environment'. We're not talking about a nightclub or a private residence, we are talking about a classroom.

dmb · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 8397

You also need to know your student needs. I'm not saying right or wrong. Telling jokes is a skill. It is part of language. If a student is having lessons so that he can join in the banter at a gentlemen's club(read networking so he can fit in) who are we to do deny it. The student is paying in order to meet his expectations. Sad but in the private 1-1 sector, true.

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

I completely agree Dmb...for one-to-one classes. If anyone is familiar with the macho Mexican male, it seems doubly so with the executive types. It's sometimes hard to keep these guys from making jokes themselves, though they tend to be more tongue-in-cheek. Doble sentido they call it here.

dmb · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 8397

I don't want to go off topic here but it is related. Getting to know your student is probably one of the most important things in teaching. Yes/No? At the same time letting your students get to know you. Not only can you gear lessons towards things your students find interesting or suits their learning style it relaxes the mood of the class and if Krashen is to be believed the filter has been lowered. Anyway, I have a 90 minute class tomorrow at 8am and the student is on the board of Fenerbache FC, who lost 3-1 tonight in the champions league. So I am all too happy to talk about football for 90 minutes. Very Happy

Should be some interesting vocab. The referee is a what?

valley_girl

Boy Wonder · Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Posts: 453 Location: Clacton on sea

Valley girl......Do they not have humour in your part of the valley?

Jokes make the lessons more interesting and entertaining for the students as does winding up certain class members( but not too sarcastically).

My 1-2-1 in Italy told me some filthy jokes....he was head of sales for a large multinational.

I'd say a few jokes about the size of a ladies *beep* or picking fun at God(Irish comedian Dave Allen made a career out of it) to the right audience is no worse than some of the views i have heard sprouted seriously in classes around the world.

This includes my Greek students views in 1999 that ethnic cleansing in Kosova was acceptable because they were only muslims!

My Qatari students belief that all western women are ladies of the night (to put it politely).Oh and the joyous celebrations the day after 9/11 in class at the destruction of the WTC in NY.
The burning of the American flag in class and a poster of Bin Laden being put on the classroom wall.

Italian students referring to all coloured people as n***ers..... repeatedly!

My Thai students deriding one of the darker skinned members of the class as useless because his skin colour means he is stupid and therefore unable to learn anything!

Various students from all over the world laughing uncontrollably at any picture of anybody overweight....some of them screaming...'fat fat fat' as if they were afflicted with leprosy!

If you are going to get all politically correct and moralistic then you should maybe stay in the Valley because you will find that the world and many of your students are seriously sexist, racist, weightist, and religiously intolerant compared to todays Anglo saxon societies.

Oh and by the way do you think that the role of women isn't demeaned in countries across the Middle East, Latin America, Asia, Africa and parts of Europe in particular the mediterranean countries?

Don't think that your standards can be appreciated and acknowledged wherever you go........it's simple....they can't!!!!

ls650 · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 3484 Location: British Columbia

Cdaniels · Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 3:29 pm Post subject: Off-color

I think the United States is the most likely place for people to find offence. If you look carefully, the joke about God and "stupid" women is really a sharper jab at males than females. "Someone would have to be stupid to love a man" is the punchline, so the humor is darkly misanthropic rather than sexist.
Plus, I think a joke, especially an off-colour joke, is much more likely to be remembered (and repeated) than other material, so it is useful for the student. I know I appreciate learning Spanish jokes, even bad ones, for precisely this reason. http://www.donquijote.org/spanishlanguage/chistes/
Personally, I would love to hear any jokes valley_girl has to share. When she reads "dirty jokes" does she think of some ripping good blushers?

Justin Trullinger · Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:25 pm Post subject:

Jyulee · Joined: 01 May 2005 Posts: 81

I suspect that male teachers might find it easier to use (and/or study) profanity in the class than females - it�s no surprise that the person on this thread who�s responded most negatively to the idea is called "valley girl"!

Even then, there is a big difference between simply using profanity in the class (through informal chat, jokes, whatever) and studying it, in a rather more bland technical context. Students have occasionally asked me about the F word, and I�ve told them. I wouldn�t feel comfortable going into the exact semantics of what prepositions to use when - but could imagine contexts where teachers and students would.

Yes, in the real world students will encounter profanity - and I can see the argument for including it in class material. But this has to be balanced against other factors of professionalism (which, in this case, means "What will the non-academic side of the staff think of this, will the students complain, is it appropriate?)

Just my two cents Smile

Cdaniels · Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:41 pm Post subject: Favourite quote

Not to mention that "The indiscriminate use of vulgar language is the linguistic crutch of the inarticulate m**********r." (author unknown)

How do people feel about the British vs. US use of "bloody?"
Worth teaching (or more like warning about) or would you only answer only if asked about it?

I learned what I know about Spanish curses (and differences between Spain, Mex. and other LA countries) from classmates and friends, but then again, I wasn't looking to immigrate, work or do business in Spanish when I took my college classes, unlike many EFL learners.

dmb · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 8397

If didn't know how to swear or understand rude street slang, I wouldn't know what some of my friends were talking about half the time. Restricting my language to textbook Turkish would be restricting my knowledge of living in Turkey and have fewer good friends. Swearing and jokes are intrinsically linked with language and culture. You cant separate a language from its culture.