Job Discussion Forums

[TeachEnglish]

From what i understand from female friends, the foreign women can expect to be harrassed. Turkish men are an interesting group of the male species. They do not usually harrass their own women like they harrass foreign women. The last incident i heard of from a friend involves of all things.. a young water boy. She usually has the water brought into her home, and set up in her kitchen. A couple days ago a new, very friendly water boy delivers to her. After his strange looks, and touching her hand when taking and giving money, he wanted to know where she was from. Before she could get him to leave, he was asking her for sex, in not a very friendly way. He wanted to make sure she was not Turkish before he started to insult her and I guess he just assumed because she was foreign and he is Turkish, she would give it up to him.. and she was not dressed provacatively or anything.. sweatpants and tshirt.. So my point is, foreign women can expect harrassment from Turkish men and you should not put yourself in a situation where it can become uncomfortable or you can be assaulted. Don't forget, the cops are the same bunch of Turkish men, maybe even worse because they have some power. If you are cursed with beauty and style, you almost certainly will get harrassed just walking down the street. My best advice for this is to use the stupid, overly macho Turks as much as you can and give them a taste of their own medicine. Maybe if they go home with their overly inflated egos and brain tucked between their legs a few times, eventually they will get a clue.

[saloma]

[Theresa]

For what it's worth I've been here on and off for around two years now so I've been through most scenarios and stages of culture shock myself. My experience is that I set the rules on how they will behave towards me-my "hanim efendi" (basically a good girl) act is quite good now. This is their country after all so it's it's logical to learn and follow their rules, isn't it?

I agree that tourism is the root of many problems that foreign females face here but then I've seen the same thing in other places too. There too there were far too many European women of all ages willing to give whatever to poor local men. Plus they may be hoping you're Russian.

As for staring I was really uneasy about it for a long while until in Antalya I realised that I do the same: there was a hassidic jew family (honest!!) walking down the street and I found myself turning my head to watch them along with the locals...... And er recently did the same in Ankara when I saw Asian women in saris... As Molly said you just have to learn not to make eye contact. It takes a while but it's possible. Plus, as Molly also said, Turkish men can be incredibly chivalrous. My kapaci for example is very protective and so are the guys at work. I know that should I have a real problem I can count on them to be there which is more than I can say for Paris. You just need to work what Turkish women do, how they operate and follow suit. Again even skimpy clothes are possible if you have the right attitude to match. (It's hard work though and I'm not entirely sure it's worth it.)


ps Am really pleased that at least one offensive message was deleted as I was wondering if it was worth contributing to the posts again only to get a nasty comment back

[TeachEnglish]

[tekirdag]

I remember many years ago in Canada hearing of a "madonna/w h ore" attitude and I wondered what the heck they were talking about. I found it here. In some circles in Turkey women are either VERY good or VERY bad. There is nothing in between. If you bed anyone who you aren't married to then you will bed ANYONE. If you curse, then you are and will probably do everything else too. If you drink, !!

There is also a communication problem. I hadn't noticed this in Istanbul. There really are women here who hardly ever leave their homes. I have seen women on the dolmuş who won't pass their fair forward because they would have to give it to a man. I have been asked for directions by women on streets crowded with men because they wouldn't ask any of the guys. There is little exchange between men and women in some circles. Then the water delivery guy gets ACTUALLY LOOKED in the eye by a woman. OMG She MUST be good to go! By just passing the time of day, no big deal in some countries, we can actually give these men the wrong message.

[dmb]

In defence of Turkish men. I have male Turkish friends and their opinions attitudes are no different from western friends. They are middle class and educated. Are the men described in previous posts eneducated village mentality people(I hope I don't sound like a snob here) No diifferent from the same type of people in the UK.

[tekirdag]

Turkish men are not all the same, of course. That's why I wrote "in certain circles". Turkish folks come in many shapes and sizes and colors and....

[dmb]

Maalesef, there are nasty types everywhere.

[justme]

I'd tried the fake wedding ring thing in Italy and it worked prety well. I never did it here, but then I got a real wedding ring and it's a world of difference. There're still stares, but not as much of the other crap. Maybe bothering me is like messing with another guy's stuff. Or maybe they assume, in that village way, that my keeper (husband) is nearby.

On the other hand, village-y guys that I need to deal with in everyday life are considerably colder and less friendly once they see the ring. They won't make eye contact, and they won't even speak to me to take my order, or listen to what I say, if my husband is with me. At first I felt bad, like they were being rude, but really, they're just being as respectful as they can be. And it makes it a lot easier to play that hanım effendi role...

[Frizzie Lizzie]

The wedding ring works, not so much the "foreign" husband. A friend of mine who's married to an American was treated as if she didn't have one at all on a number of occasions (and even when the husband was WITH her), and I have reasons to believe she would have been much safer with a Turkish husband.

Personally, I have not experienced any nasty incidents in the streets at any time of the day, and although SOME Turkish men stare quite intently and annoyingly, I really think there's a long way from that to actually being physically harassed.

[molly farquharson]

I'm middle-aged and I get hit on, but of course I am appreciative of it That said, however, I don't think that the men (and yes, usually koylu) are harrassing, as much as expressing their god-given right, as they see it, to at least make the effort. They usually go away when they are rebuffed, as and someone said, I hear of few instances of actually physical touching. I also have heard stories of middle-aged and older women hitting up the boys in the tourist areas, but I haven't seen it so much here in Istanbul.