Job Discussion Forums

Chris_Crossley · Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:42 pm Post subject: Never mind Finnish, learn Magyar!

Now that Hungary is in the EU, perhaps everybody will start learning Magyar as a foreign language! Wink

dmb · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 8397

Can any of you linguists out there explain why Hungarian, Turkish and Finnish are in the same family? I can get my head round Hungarian and Turkish being in the same family but Finnish?
The best foreign speaker of Turkish iI know is Hungarian, so maybe if I ever went to Hungary or Finland I'd learn the language easily, Yes/No?

Justin Trullinger · Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:15 pm Post subject:

Stephen Jones · Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 4124

The language family is called the Finno-Ugric family, and the answer to your quesition as to how they are related is migration.

dmb · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 8397

Thanks Stephen, but it is the migration between Turkey and Finland I don't understand. Turkish is, I think, the 10th most spoken language in the world. It or a related language is spoken from Northern China to the Russian border. In a historical sense I can guess this is due to The Ottoman and Byzantine Empires, but Finland?

Cdaniels · Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:25 pm Post subject: Estonian

Does anyone know if Estonian is related to Finnish/Hungarian/Turkish? I think part of the trouble is when you try to think how people from the three countries would have contact with one another. It seems more likely to me that much of Eastern Europe and Turkey used to speak dialects of Finno-Urgic, and Indo-European worked its way inward, possibly from both the West and the East. BTW Finnish are infamous (at least throughout Scandanavia) for being very quiet, talking only in short, pointed exchanges.

dmb · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 8397

Yip, it is related. They are all part of the Altaic family of languages, which includes Turkic, Mongolian and Tungusic.(by Turkic, I mean A family of languages which is in effect a dialect continuum, which extends from the Balkans across central Asia into Siberia- ok I am reading a linguistic dictionary at the moment) But I still want to know how Finnish and Turkish are related

Henry_Cowell · Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 3352 Location: Berkeley

Turkish is NOT in the same family. Finnish and Hungarian are part of the Uralic family of languages. Turkish is part of the Altaic family of languages.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uralic_languages

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altaic_language

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_languages

dmb · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 8397

henry, you spoilsport. I am rushing out the door now and shouldn't be at my computer, but for over a decade I have believed they are part of the same family. I will check your links later.(next, you will be telling me Father Christmas exists!)

dajiang · Joined: 13 May 2004 Posts: 663 Location: Guilin!

Yeah, Turkish is not in that same group.
It's only Finnish and Hungarian that are related.

As far as I know anyway... I'll check my language family timeline back home... Confused

Anyway, the people of Finland were supposed to have come from the Urals way long ago, like 4000 BC or something.
The Hungarians settled in Hungary from the Urals about 3000 years later.

There might be a relation between Turkish and Japanese, but it's not proven as far as I know. I thought it came from Inuit actually.

Dajiang

Henry_Cowell · Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 3352 Location: Berkeley

dmb,

With 31 out of your life, somebody needs to spoil your day!! Wink

dmb · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 8397

Thanks henry. I'd still like to know where this myth of Finnish, Hungarian and Turkish being related comes from. Is it simply because they are all aggluterated

Stephen Jones · Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 4124

Here's a link that posits a strong relationship between the Ugric, Altaic and Slavic languages.
http://sophistikatedkids.com/turkic/40%20Language/TurkicAndIEsEn.htm
Mind you, I am highly suspicious of the value of any 'genetic' analysis of language trees, particularly when carried out by a biologist and not a linguist.

some waygug-in · Joined: 07 Feb 2003 Posts: 339

I've read that Turkish is in the same family of languages as Korean, Mongolian, and Japanese.

and perhaps a few others.

But as a small aside, to those of you who are thinking of teaching in Korea, here's something for you to think about.

http://www.geocities.com/slphell/index2.html

Turn up the volume on your computer to get the full effect.
Click on the refresh button to repeat the introductory message.
Do this several thousand times until the message becomes clear to you.

Wink

biffinbridge · Joined: 05 May 2003 Posts: 701 Location: Frank's Wild Years

Well, I think the thread's run out of steam.
Going back to the original post...of course you would need to know your students.I simply posted a question.
Personally, teaching RP English in a world devoid of swearing etc is ridiculous.