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Bertrand
Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 293
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 Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2003 7:06 am Post subject: |
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| katy wrote: |
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on the BBC when they talk about sports it is called `sport`. Why?
They talk about more than one sport. |
Would anyone like to apply a theory to the difference between UK maths and US math? |
It's arbitrary. In English 'information' is uncountable, though in German - the present day cousin of English - it is countable (i.e., Informationen). |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2003 10:42 am Post subject: information |
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| "Information" in German is "Auskunft". You are using a borrowed "Fremdwort" that would be understood by about 10 percent of the population of German-speaking countries. And when it is used it is normally used in the singular "die Information". In 40 years of using German I have never seen it used in the plural. |
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Roger
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 5:08 am Post subject: |
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You are right, scot47, "Information" equates "Auskunft" in German - in certain contexts.
But "Auskunft" generally is regarded as a collective term that can cover several items of information. If you want to refer to individual bits of information, you can very well say "Informationen" in plural, and "Information" to singular. The German term word "Auskunft" seems to me to be more personal and subjective, as in "diese Auskunft, die Sie mir gegeben haben war richtig", whereas "Information" is more technical in nature ("die Informationen des BND sind nicht zuverlaessig genug...").
Thus, "Information", plural "Informationen", is a loanword ("Fremdwort"), but it is known widely enough and used by more than ten percent of all Germans. |
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craig-from-calgary
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 4
Location: Calgary
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 3:21 am Post subject: the silent 'x' |
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Just be glad we don't speak French - they don't pronounce HALF of the letters on the page. What's the point in having a silent 'x' anyway? 
And not all Brits aspirate properly, either. Try getting a cockney to pronounce "hot water" and you'll be lucky to get a couple gutteral vowels out of them.
No insult intended! Just flame bait. Peace and love, all.
Cheerio,
Craig |
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craig-from-calgary
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 4
Location: Calgary
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 3:29 am Post subject: Re: the silent 'cokney' |
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| craig-from-calgary wrote: |
Just be glad we don't speak French - they don't pronounce HALF of the letters on the page. What's the point in having a silent 'x' anyway?
And not all Brits aspirate properly, either. Try getting a *beep* to pronounce "hot water" and you'll be lucky to get a couple gutteral vowels out of them.
No insult intended! Just flame bait. Peace and love, all.
Cheerio,
Craig |
Hey, since when is "c-o-c-k-n-e-y" a bad word? I don't want people thinking that I said something rude up there, calling certain British people rude names. I happen to like the Brits. Can't understand a word they say, but love em anyway. |
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Linda L.
Joined: 03 Jul 2003
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| If you look past the language and the incomprehensible accent, underneath you find the basic kind of people that the founding fathers of the original 13 colonies found to be so revolting! |
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guest of Japan
Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 1601
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| You've obviously read different history books than me. |
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Linda L.
Joined: 03 Jul 2003
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Isn't it just a little bit late to now try to claim an ability to read? You already have the job, right? |
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PanamaTeacher
Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 278
Location: Panama
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2003 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| Que sais-je? Mon metier et mon art c'est vivre! |
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Bertrand
Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 293
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2003 2:17 am Post subject: Re: information |
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| scot47 wrote: |
| "Information" in German is "Auskunft". You are using a borrowed "Fremdwort" that would be understood by about 10 percent of the population of German-speaking countries. And when it is used it is normally used in the singular "die Information". In 40 years of using German I have never seen it used in the plural. |
Obviously your reading in German is outside of linguistic journals. Also, I'm afraid that your German may not be quite up to the level you seem to think that it has reached. Let's say you want a PC to compute and process information; there is no way that this aspect of the concept of information can be termed 'Auskunft'; it is not the details of a train's departure.
You are correct in saying that Auskunft is the Germanic rooted-term, but, and I'm sorry to have to be the one to tell you, in many contexts - as I found when doing my initial year abroad when completing my first degree (German and Linguistics) - the use of such terms often sounds like 'baby talk' and is similar to the feeling engendered when using terms such as 'Augenarzt' in place of 'Optiker' or 'Ich hab' es gern', in place of 'Es gefaellt mir sehr gern'. (Just in case you were wondering, for those of you with no knowledge of German, all nouns are written with a capital letter.)
If after 40 years of using Deutsch you still have not mastered elementary distinctions brought about through sociolinguistic factors then I would give up. Also, I must say that, from my time in the various German-speaking countries in the world (Germany, Austria, German-speaking Swizterland [some 60 percent of the Swiss population], and Namibia [former Suedwest Afrika]) I used 'die Information' and 'die Informationen' and, with those with whom I spoke at least, it was understood by far more than your putative "10%".
You are also totally incorrect as regards the paradigms of 'Information/en'. Remember in English too, although information is strictly uncountable, we have the plural 'data'. |
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khmerhit
Joined: 31 May 2003
Posts: 1874
Location: Reverse Culture Shock Unit
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2003 4:14 am Post subject: langweilig |
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| Was fur ein wirklicher schweinhund ist unser sogennante Professor. |
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Seth
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 575
Location: in exile
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2003 5:53 am Post subject: |
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Diene sorben mochte ich haben!
Bertrand uber alles! |
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Roger
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2003 6:30 am Post subject: |
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Bertrand,
one more such a serious slipup, and you are out of our club!
I'm afraid your German is nowhere near where it should be if you had studied it for two years at most!
"Auskunft" is by no means 'baby language', and thus it is not an embarrassing word at all! Like "Zukunft", it is a compound derived from 'kommen', prefixed with 'Aus-'. If you manage to stretch your imagination a little, 'outcome' can be construed to mean 'what comes out of someone's mind when he has been asked a question'. That is "Auskunft'. 'Informationen' sind more technical bits of Auskuenfte. Oh, I did speak German in the same countries as you - Germany East and West, Namibia (though very few blacks knew it, most using English or Afrikaans, my dear - I should know, my folks hail from Pretoria), Austria, Alsace ('Elsass' in German), Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Belgium, and that country with that bastardised German - Switzerland. I probably spoke German more regularly than you speak your English, Bertrand!
How can a so-called "linguist" make such preposterous claims as "Optiker" is the more learned equivalent of "Augenarzt"?????? Bertrand, you need some help - not linguistic, to be sure!
"Optiker" is a profession you can translate as "optician", the man that sells you eyeglasses. But a 'doctor' he ain't!!!!
I have an eye condition that required me to visit ophtalmologists a number of times - in German-speaking countries it was never anything else but a 'Augenarzt', well, sometimes it was an "Augenaerztin" - if you know the difference, but I doubt you know that much German, so here is: A female Augenarzt, my dear Doctorus Bertrandus ignoramus!
And, please, my hyper-Germanistic, super-linguistical and overerudite dear friend: "Es gefaellt mir sehr GERNE..." - 'gerne' - semantics????? I have never heard such a German sentence, and, yes, I read Goethe, Kaestner, Willhelm Busch and dozens of good German writers!
Bertrand: Are you an impostor??? |
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PanamaTeacher
Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 278
Location: Panama
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2003 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Correct roger, you have unmasked a fraud! |
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Bertrand
Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 293
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2003 5:35 am Post subject: Re: langweilig |
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| khmerhit wrote: |
| Was fur ein wirklicher schweinhund ist unser sogennante Professor. |
(For those of you with no knowledge of German, I'll correct the above passage for you). It should be: 'Was fuer......ist.'
Again, totally embarrassing. |
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