Job Discussion Forums

[jane1]

I would like to know the pros and cons when living in both places. I am having a hard time deciding where to teach. So far my high debate is that Taiwan will pay a lot more than Mainland China.

Can someone tell me about the standard of living, people, students, jobs, nightlife, or whatever you can think of...

[teacha]

go to the job journal on here. from what I have heard china is gross. I got this off there and it jives with the word on taiwan about china.

The bad things are practically all cultural:
#1/ environmental consciousness: almost non-existent. The level of pollution is unbelievable. On a good day, you have about 1km of visibility. Roads and waterways are lined with household rubbish. People litter the streets, and even walk out of shops, then unwrap icecreams and drop the wrappers on the street instead of using either the bin in the shop or the one they are standing next to on the street.

#2/ toilets: execrable. Old men step behind bushes, but little children (and drunks) just squat and relieve themselves on the streets. We came across a mother with a small child on the stairs inside one of the college buildings. Rather than taking the child to the toilet, which was about 30m down the hall, she simply let him piss on the landing between floors. The toilets in many schools and eateries are unbelievably filthy because of people's poor aim/lack of concern. The tradition of taking your shoes off when you go into a house possibly stems from the use of such places. Soap is only available in very expensive places.

#3/ racism: Japanese are evil. Most of the population of China have been indoctrinated (via movies, TV, books, magazines etc) to hate Japanese, aided by the fact that few have ever actually met a single person from Japan. Japanese are supposed to be violent, ill-mannered, and faithless.

#4/ snobbery: you're important or you're worthless. The flipside of China's "guanxi" system, in which friendly relationships are cultivated with strangers, is that it only applies if you think the stranger may be able to be of some help to you in the future. Don't say, "Thank you" to the bus driver or the waiter; it's their job to help you, so you don't owe them any such thing as courtesy. God help you if you're a cleaner.

#5/ image: fame is everything. "Why do you want to go to that town?" Chinese students in NZ asked, "It's not famous". If a Chinese person wants to tell you that a hotel or a restaurant or a brand of clothing is good, they will say, "It's famous". And if it's not famous, then obviously it's not good. In a classroom exercise, when I asked one of the students why Michael Schumacher drives better than I do, he replied, "Because he's famous". Conspicuous consumption is the norm; show off your wealth, even if you don't have it. Most consumers would rather buy something pretty than something efficient, effective or durable. A Chinese friend was told, by her neighbours, that she should concrete her garden "because that would cost more".

#6/ animals: they exist for your convenience. We saw three teenage girls come skipping out of Pizza Hut in Jinan, one of them swinging, like a handbag, a baby rabbit in a wire mesh cage. Half-inch mesh. We have seen lots of these cages for cats and rabbits and puppies, the only other type being wickerwork bird cages. Dogs are clubbed to death because it is supposed to improve the flavour of the meat. Sometimes they are carried around on racks, hanging by their back legs. When I say I miss my cat, people suggest I get one here. The fact that I would have to abandon it in a few months is never considered.

#7/ education: disastrous. Governmental censorship means that much of what is learnt in school is untrue (see also #3). The authorities view with suspicion any books written outside of China. While it is difficult to get into a university, it is stunningly easy to pass your degree. Parents invite teachers out to dinner on the guanxi basis; i.e. now I have done this for you, you can let my child pass. Qualifications matter more than competence. Regardless of your actual field, you must pass papers in economics, philosophy and politics: Marx, Engels and Mao.

#8/ cultural history: severed. Apart from what they see on television, most Chinese have little appreciation of their own history, customs and beliefs. The Cultural Revolution destroyed it all. In what used to be the largest Buddhist nation on earth, even I know more about Buddhist belief than most of the people. Confucianism is a memory. In a classroom exercise on employment, students listed "priest" amongst 'jobs no longer performed': this in a city in which I, having been there for six weeks, knew of a mosque, a Catholic church, a Protestant church and a Buddhist temple.

End result: by all means come to visit China and see the tourist sites, but it's not a place to stay.

We came here with the intention of remaining for at least one year. Before I arrived, I had various ideas of China, gleaned from Chinese students, news services, books etc. Some of these ideas were romanticisations, while others were fears. Unfortunately, only the fears proved true. When we leave, we will have been here for nine months.

Greg
17 October 2004
[email protected]
Shandong, China
Posted: October 16, 2004

[clark.w.griswald]

Having lived and worked in both China and Taiwan I would definitely say that I prefer Taiwan. I honestly don't know of any people who have lived in both Taiwan and China but prefer China. I do know people who having lived in both actually prefer Taiwan.

It was interesting to read some of the replies you have received over on the China forum and they certainly indicate a lack of understanding of Taiwan. I am sure that some of those people have never even been here.

It really depends on what you want from your time here. The only upside that I can see to China is travel, but then you earn so little when working there that I can't see that you would really have enough money to really enjoy any travelling that you may do. If you worked in Taiwan you could easily earn enough to take a good trip to China each year and really enjoy yourself.

I suppose another possible plus may be that jobs are easier to get over there, but the legality of much of the work that you do could certainly be called into question.

[ramakentesh]

I have to agree - most people I have known who have done both Taiwan and rural China (anywhere other than Beijing or Shanghai and other major cities) have found Taiwan much 'easier' than China.
That's not to say that mainland China doesnt have many things to offer - very low costs of living, being the only westerner in an entire city, meeting people who are hiding from the law in their own countries, and that fact that you can just walk into a job in China.
But, I guess because there isnt much information for people to see before arriving, the old 'midnight run' where teachers fly out at midnight to go back home is very common. The toilets can be hostile!
Public defecation isnt common, but it is apparent in some more backwards places - its being stamped out for toddlers in Beijing, but you still see it occassionally. But, go to India!
On the other hand I found Beijing to be a fantastic, clean, modern and friendly place - I cant say that I had one bad experience there the whole time...

[JZer]

You are also leaving out the disastrous driving habits of the Chinese. When you walk on the streets make sure you always have your eyes open since pedestrians have little rights. Secondly, taxi drivers like to weave in and out of traffic. They will even drive on the wrong side of the road to pass a car.

I have been to Taiwan and China but I was only in Taiwan for 2 weeks but it seems that in Taiwan you don't have to face the problem of people always trying to rip you off like in China.

[markholmes]

I lived in Taiwan and China. It's difficult to make a statement about China that would encompass the whole country, because places vary so much.

I lived in Guilin, which had a foreign population of maybe 10 at that time (local population 1,000,000). Life certainly had its ups and downs (with a capital D) and life in Taiwan was easier, much easier. I've been to harder places in China (I'm trying not to use the word 'worse'), in fact I've been to 17 provinces from Xinjiang to Guangdong and no two places are the same.

After university in Guilin, studying in Beijing was a doddle, however I would still have to say Taiwan was easier.

I've never been to Shanghai, but a few Chinese have told me it's like Taiwan.

I'm not sure I would say I prefer Taiwan. I certainly would prefer to live in Taiwan because it is a lot less hassle that China, but for travel I would say China is much more interesting and certainly more unpredictable.

[SurfTaiwan]

China is by far the most interesting and unpredictable place to travel in Asia. Every 10km can be a different language with differnt food, different looking people....amazing.....China is great if your not focused on money...

If you want money go to Korea....Taiwan you will make less and it's almost as dirty as China.....

[teacha]

But Korea is more full of scam and violence than Taiwan so your lifestyle and life is more at risk.

[Drizzt]

In my opinion one huge advantage of teaching in China over Taiwan is you can teach at the university level with only a BA.

[gregoryfromcali]

[Tiger Beer]

mainland china vs taiwan doesn't really sound fair.. as each city in china is different.

I'd love to hear a SHANGHAI vs TAIPEI scenerio though.. might start one up.

[ramakentesh]

Another advantage for CHina is that its far easier for people to find employment there. You go on holiday and people might approach you.

[teacha]

On the other hand I found Beijing to be a fantastic, clean, modern and friendly place - I cant say that I had one bad experience there the whole time...[/quote]


Were you teaching there or on vacation? What about the air?

[ramakentesh]

Well originally studying then sorta working - but i went home because i had to go back to work

[teacha]