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Bertrand
Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 293
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 Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2003 5:36 am Post subject: |
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| Seth wrote: |
Diene sorben mochte ich haben!
Bertrand uber alles! |
I think you may mean something (more) like: Deine Sorgen (? perhaps ?) moechte ich becommen/haben. And it is 'ueber', not 'uber'.
Last edited by Bertrand on Wed Jul 16, 2003 6:12 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Bertrand
Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 293
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2003 5:38 am Post subject: |
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| PanamaTeacher wrote: |
Correct roger, you have unmasked a fraud!  |
And what are your 2nd, 3rd, and 4th languages like? |
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Bertrand
Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 293
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2003 5:59 am Post subject: |
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| Roger wrote: |
"Auskunft" is by no means 'baby language', and thus it is not an embarrassing word at all! |
Obviously. But if you read my original comment then you will see that this is with clear reference to journals. Thus, your comments may be true, though irrelevant.
| Roger wrote: |
| How can a so-called "linguist" make such preposterous claims as "Optiker" is the more learned equivalent of "Augenarzt"?????? Bertrand, you need some help - not linguistic, to be sure! |
Firstly, linguists in my field deal with (the concept of) language, not any particular (example of a) language. Second, I never suggested that Optiker is any more 'learned' than Augenartz; merely that, due to academic and societal pressures, the former is more likely to be used in journals (at least those dealing with Germanische Sprachwissenshaft). In fact, with my Concordancing software I just ran a check on a sample of 45 issues of such journal papers that I have in digital format. Unfortunately, this corpus linguistics technique did not bring any interesting facts to light (there were zero examples in the text). I did however, perform a quick run on my digital format copies of Die Sueddeutsche Zeitung and, although I know the German of this publication is a tad quicky and Bavarian-based, I found 35 examples of 'Optiker' as opposed to only 3 examples of 'Augenartz'. I could perform the calculations to show that - empirically - this is statistically significant, but PM me for them if you want as it is not needed here. (BTW, I always use 'Augenartz' in daily language, but this was not my original point.)
| Roger wrote: |
| "Optiker" is a profession you can translate as "optician", the man that sells you eyeglasses. But a 'doctor' he ain't!!!! |
He does not HAVE to be a certified medical doctor, you are right (in the same way that a psychologist does not have to be a doctor), but he could be. Many, in fact, are. In Garmisch-Partenkirchen (where I once lived - it's near Mittenwald which is right next door to the border with Oesterreich) we had an Optiker (a man who examined one's eyes and prescribed those lovely free German state glasses!) and an Augenarzt who, as you say, merely dispensed glasses, etc. There we also had a 'Pharmazeut' (I think this is how it was spelt). I had no idea what this was and I had a degree in German. It was used, in that part of Germany at least, in place of the much more common (and widely known) 'Apotheke'.
| Roger wrote: |
| well, sometimes it was an "Augenaerztin" - if you know the difference, but I doubt you know that much German, so here is: A female Augenarzt |
Well done, you know how to construct female roles from their masculine bases. yes, to form the female form in this case you add the umlaut (a 'change sound) on the 'a' of Artz' and add the suffix 'in'. It's pretty basic German morphology and I don't think that you believe that anyone with more than one month's study of German behind them would not know this.
| Roger wrote: |
"Es gefaellt mir sehr GERNE..." - 'gerne' - semantics????? I have never heard such a German sentence, and, yes, I read Goethe, Kaestner, Willhelm Busch and dozens of good German writers!
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First, who cares if you have heard it or not? There are an indefinite number of clauses you have not heard - and never will - as they are just that: infinite. Language does not provide its users with sentences that match on a one to one basis with scenes and events in the real world. Rather,it provides its users with a system with which they can comprehend and construct an indefinite number of utterances, most, if not all of which, will be unheard by that person in the past and, furthermore, are most likely totally unique having never before being uttered. Second, as you know, the various dialects (in the sense of a regional glosso-boundary) are very much alive in Germany as opposed to England where southern English tends to oust all other varieties (via the national news, etc.). For instance, what do you use as a tag question in your German? Nicht wahr? Nicht? Oder? (Depending on course of the degree of negativity expected in the answer) Ja? Where I lived, worked, studied, and learnt German, everyone used 'gelt' (not Geld) (which is SAID to originate fron gelten (to make valid). Thus, people would say to me (because my accent was so bad [!]): 'Du bist Englaender, gelt?' Or, 'Du kommst aus England, gell?' Third, Goethe? I took various translations and (incremental) interpretation tests at the Goethe Institute and they had a different opinion as to my German ability! (They employed me as a court interpretor anyway which would tend to signal acknowledgement of [some form of] ability!)
As Goethe wrote: You must be a hammer or an anvil. |
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baby predator
Joined: 12 May 2003
Posts: 176
Location: London, United Kingdom
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2003 7:40 am Post subject: |
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For those of you who don't speak Bertrand, here's my translation:
"Uh oh, that Roger guy is right, again. He made me look like an idiot. I'd better write a really long passage full of guff to make it look like I'm not a nitwit."
Trust me, I have a PhD in Gobbledegook. |
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khmerhit
Joined: 31 May 2003
Posts: 1874
Location: Reverse Culture Shock Unit
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2003 8:19 am Post subject: How many Bertrands are there?! |
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Uber allen Gipfeln ist Ruh,
In allen Wipfeln spurest du kaum einen Hauch;
Die Bertrande schweigen im Walde.
Balde, ruhest du auch.
Ich mochte gern seine Sorgen haben, gelt? |
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khmerhit
Joined: 31 May 2003
Posts: 1874
Location: Reverse Culture Shock Unit
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2003 8:20 am Post subject: translation |
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Silence over all the mountainpeaks,
In all the valleys you can barely hear a breath;
The Bertrands* are silent in the forests;
Soon, you too will be at rest.
JW von Goethe trans. Khmerhit
*Bertrands is 'birds' in the original
Last edited by khmerhit on Wed Jul 16, 2003 9:26 am; edited 1 time in total |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2003 8:50 am Post subject: whhere is this going |
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Where is this discussion going ? I thought it was about funny varieties of English !
Seems it has been hijacked by someone who wants to prove how smart he is. |
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Roger
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2003 9:05 am Post subject: |
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Bertrand,
it still is obvious that you do not know the difference between an Optiker and an Augenarzt! The latter is an 'ophtalmologist' in English, nothing more and nothing less.
A pity you could not write "-arzt" a single time correctly! What does that say about your German interpretation skill? And, while I do not expect the language to live up to my expectation I do live up to language norms that are set by native speakers, true to Ferdinand de Saussure's assertion that mother tongue speakers of a language tacitly enter into a contract that governs the use of their language. Thus, I would never say "es gefaellt mir sehr gerne!" but rather "es gefaellt mir sehr GUT."
I am sure I would understand your German; what is the real issue here is your attitude you bring to the debate. I think no one will disagree with me when I claim that your contributions to Dave's various forums are characterised by a rather heavy-handed contrarianness, a confrontational and self-aggrandising haughtiness. Many of us might even agree with you in how great you are as a student of L. Wittgenstein's - were it not that you are never missing an opportunity to viciously downgrade other posters here. Your posts are full of conceit and other attitudinal deficiencies not worthy of a teacher.
As you can easily see there are many here on the mainland that are intellectually at least your equals.
It's time for you, Bertrand, to recognise that if you were Albert Einstein in another incarnation you are wasting your perceived talents as a linguist in the cultural desert called Hong Kong! |
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Linda L.
Joined: 03 Jul 2003
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2003 9:19 am Post subject: |
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Well said Roger!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ditto from me!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bertrand no one here is gonna bow down and kiss your ars no matter how intellectual you try to come off.
For my full rant against you see the thread on what is business English. |
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