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Roger
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138
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 Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 5:07 am Post subject: |
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I didn't ask you, vbd, whether you are a "professional", but to allay your fears: Yes, I am.
With your 123'000 a month job experience you ought to know that your company employers give a hoot for your certs and university background.
What you learn at a western university is largely useless in a Chinese English-teaching setting - for reasons we don't need to rehash here again.
People who come to "teach English" for a "company" in China want good remuneration, not improve the teaching standards here. If you are one of the few exceptions, welcome, but contribute your precious insights to the public over at the CHINA DAILY - it is they that need to change their ideas so that itinerant FTs can do their job effectively.
If a teacher needs "assistance" in teaching how can you expect his students to respect him? And precisely when do these learners learn to depend on their own mental resources to navigate in a foreign language??? |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 5:25 am Post subject: |
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Wow this is like fishing � put the bait down and wise Roger always comes to bite.
Hey Roger what�s this about re-hashing � does that mean a subject dies after the wise and experienced have discussed it � can�t a little ol� forum newbie have a say????????????? I think its propaganda rags like The China Daily that don�t encourage the re �hashing of old subjects � not here wise Roger. We all want our say.
As far as respect is concerned Roger, what would your kindergarten students do if you came into the classroom with a teaching assistant � would they go into a huddle in the corner and say ��we�ve lost all respect for that guy � lets quit�! Wow you�ve got some advanced toddlers over there roger. |
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Roger
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 9:43 am Post subject: |
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vbdk,
if you cost your "company" 12'000 a month, and your TA costs them another couple of thousand yuan (why so much less, by the way???), and you cannot do a good job, i.e. communicate with your students without a third party's help then I for one would say you are overpaid! Or incompetent for your job! |
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mmm... pancakes
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 92
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 10:37 am Post subject: |
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I'm not trying to jump into the middle of your squabble. You two can merrily carry on, if you so please (perhaps by PM to spare the rest of us?).
I just have a couple of things to say. I know they've been well-covered before, but still:
| Roger wrote: |
| if you cost your "company" 12'000 a month, and your TA costs them another couple of thousand yuan (why so much less, by the way???) |
Surely that has a lot to do with enticing foreigners to leave the comforts of their home country to travel to and live in China, which is a difficult country to be happy in? Reduce the pay to the level of most Chinese and you'd get a tiny group of hardcore teachers - nowhere near enough to fill the demand. They would probably be keener than a lot of current FTs are, but the money is there because that's what schools need to pay to entice foreigners to come. Chinese, by contrast, will work for less, and there is an over-supply in my experience.
| Roger wrote: |
| If a teacher needs "assistance" in teaching how can you expect his students to respect him? And precisely when do these learners learn to depend on their own mental resources to navigate in a foreign language??? |
I have a teaching assistant in every class. After we clear up the rules on what I want her to do (ie shut up unless I specifically ask her to translate something), it works very well. I don't need assistance in order to teach, but I am grateful for her help in speeding up administrative things. Merely having a TA doesn't mean my students aren't using their own mental resources. The trick, in my experience, has been to know HOW to use your TA. I regard my best classes the ones when my TA doesn't speak and the kids have a good understanding of what's going on. But I still like having her there.
I demand my students to respect me, though at the same time my 'fun' classes are more lax than their standard classes and they are therefore not as well-behaved all the time. But, as with the TA, once the rules become clear (ie about how far they can and can't go) things go swimmingly. I think that has nothing to do with having or not having a TA. I discipline my students myself, my way, and require that they use their own brains.
Please don't consider that one way of doing things is inherently wrong - both Roger and vikdk - because there are always degrees and circumstances. China is a large place and we FTs teach in a wide range of educational institutions and locations.
On a final note, Roger, when you reply to a post the last post is immediately below where you're typing. If you want to check someone's name just scroll down a little and look. It's not that hard. Constantly and purposely getting someone's name wrong is - in my book - extremely disrespectful. No matter what you think of his/her ideas, vikdk is still a person and deserves a little common courtesy.
Have a nice day, all.  |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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oh wise roger - how I wish I was as wise as you  |
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mmm... pancakes
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 92
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| oh constructive vikdk - how I wish I was as constructive as you |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| dont worry pancake - I've had my little giggle, so now I'll crawl back into my little ol' hole now...and leave the talking to you big professionals |
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mmm... pancakes
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 92
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| see you after the hibernating season is over, vik |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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wow sorry yummy pancake - just have to jump out one more time.
Do seasons really hibernate? Thought it was me who was supposed to fall into the land of ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz � have to read your e book on how to teach English � then maybe I�ll learn something else from you |
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NateM
Joined: 19 Apr 2004
Posts: 358
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Roger wrote: |
vbdk,
if you cost your "company" 12'000 a month, and your TA costs them another couple of thousand yuan (why so much less, by the way???), and you cannot do a good job, i.e. communicate with your students without a third party's help then I for one would say you are overpaid! Or incompetent for your job! |
A teaching assistant can be a huge resource in larger class sizes. Students need individualized attention when learning a language, and I don't care how good a teacher you may be, you can't do a whole hell of a lot of that when you have 35 students in a room and you only have a 50 minute class. A teaching assistant who actually does try to help the teacher carry out their lesson plan is going to help you carry out your lesson plan and make it better in a way that would be physically impossible to do if you were on your own. |
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Roger
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:24 am Post subject: |
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[quote="NateM"]
| Roger wrote: |
vbdk,
if ]
A teaching assistant can be a huge resource in larger class sizes. Students need individualized attention when learning a language, and I don't care how good a teacher you may be, you can't do a whole hell of a lot of that when you have 35 students in a room and you only have a 50 minute class. A teaching assistant who actually does try to help the teacher carry out their lesson plan is going to help you carry out your lesson plan and make it better in a way that would be physically impossible to do if you were on your own. |
Actually, I do not categorically refuse the help of some TA - I should have added that I was supported in my kindergarten classes by one very able TA.
They are essential in maintaining discipline - with younger learners.
The point I was trying to make was that a teacher who needs a Translator in his classroom is not an ideal teacher. If he or she has to defer to a local person for that part of his instruction then I wonder why they put a person like this in the classes in the first place. The key to success is, of course, to strike a balance between what the students can master and what's new to them; the latter must be conveyed to them without translation - if at all possible, and in my opinion it nearly always is possible. It certainly IS POSSIBLE in a KINDERGARTEN class. |
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benno
Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 501
Location: Fake Mongolia
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:53 am Post subject: |
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| vikdk wrote: |
Having a loa wai in the classroom is the closest a lot of your students have come to setting foot abroad, and just our presence � regardless of how many assistants we use, has the potential to create that kind of positive experience that encourages and motivates the student to want to learn English.
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this quote made me laugh a little 
sorry, but have you done much teaching in China!!!!  |
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missionsonmind
Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:49 am Post subject: kid castle...remember its a franchise |
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Just thought I would give another view on Kid Castle. I work for one and I am very, very happy. I think perhaps it needs to be stated that Kid Castle is a franchise, therefore the direction and care of the school and staff comes from the owner. Not all Kid Castles can be lumped together except for standards of things like decor, curriculum, record keeping, materials and scheduling. Even these can be altered by the owner of the school. In this day and age you must know who you are working for�.although you go through an interview process you are almost always given a chance to ask questions and even if they don�t give you the opportunity�by all means ask questions.
Maybe we should create a top ten list of questions for foreigners to ask prospective employers. I bet you already did and I just haven�t landed on it yet!
My experience with Kid Castle has been terrific. Sure there are some differences and things that I would do different�(like turn on the darn AC??!) but you know they make allowances for me and allow me to do that in my class. Still not used to the temperature no matter how hard I try�when I get to teaching and its active teaching�..not just sitting on my fanny lecturing�.I am up and down and up and down and all around�its TPR from the teachers end, I think. Ha ha�actually I use all types of learning styles in my class because I realize not all the children learn the same way. I am pleased with the curriculum of Kid Castle but I would add a little more repetition to the lesson planning. I have not completed a year under this curriculum and have only been given one semester but I have a lot of freedom to add to the curriculum so I am happy about that. They do believe in allowing for some creative teaching�not the norm in china for sure!
But let�s not forget �.you can not have one bad experience with a school and call the whole thing no good�that is just way to narrow of thinking. You can not judge them according to your experiences overseas�.it just isn�t fair. I think the education system is making some great strides and as long as we stay professional and do things the right way and try to work things out �there is room for progress! Communication is the key and I am not sure our original poster did anything to communicate but complain. Sometimes we can be the catalyst for change if our attitudes are right! |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:12 am Post subject: |
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dearest benno it does seem you have a cute sense of humour - please tell me exactly why that comment made you laugh?
and why dont you think I've taught in China - ohh silly me that was a facetious comment - hahahaha what a biting wit you have - actually I've been in chinkyland now for over 2 years - if you're here aswell I'm sure we could have a good giggle. |
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rocknroll
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 41
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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Well I have been reading this forum from long time and one immediate question comes to my mind is if you don't use any translation and TA then how do you discipline your class.
I am looking forward to receive answer from Roger as he has been mentioning this from long time and many threads. |
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