Job Discussion Forums

[mandu]

i get 10,000 a month at the kindy i work at.if stay there next year my salery will go up to 12,000
my hours are from 8.30-11.30 mornings,afternoon 2.30-5.00

my 1st year in china i was getting 4000 a month and each year as i gained more exper my salery went up.

[vikdk]

Good on ya Mandu � spill the beans � lets let everyone know that you can make money here. Certain people in China are making a fortune out of education � headmasters, government officials, businessmen/women - the sorry old story, that the cost of living is low, isn�t an excuse for not getting a decent share.

[Roger]

Before you actually make money here you must be cut for the job. And it would appear that not many newcomers are mentally or even physically fit for teaching here. Living in China takes more adaptability from a Westerner than it takes adaptability from a Chinese to work in your country.
Remember the Florence Nightingale type of nurses? Ah, not manuy of you have seen them... women who devoted their lives to the wellbeing of handicapped, injured, ill people.
The days of FLorence Nightingale are gone, and so are the Florences. Last time I went to a hospital in a western country with a persistent cramp in my leg, which had developed in response to my persistent daily marathon training, the nurse coldly told me to wait for the doctor, and the doctor took a very short look at my leg, pressed the part where it hurt like hell, then proclaimed, "that's age, and nothing can be done since you do not want to give up your sport!"
Of course, something could perhaps be done if I was willing to pay for private consultations. The hospital was merely a landlord renting out its premises to greedy mercenary doctors with or without the skills a patient such as me needed.

And that is the situation in the TEFL market of China. We are swamped by mercenary "techers" who have nothing other than their anglophone nationalitiy to offer, which they think deserves to be royally paid for.
So long as fools buy services of any quality, fools will offer these services. But it's not always easy to secure a steady cash flow. Some "customers" are demanding more than a pretty white face owning the right sort of a passport; some are discerning and want to succeed at some university entrance exam. Mercenary "teachers" who are unemployable back home aren't likely to be of much use there.

[Don McChesney]

I don't understand your logic, Roger.
You had a cramp which YOU said was in response to your persisant training, and the doctor said nothing can be done since you don't want to give up your sport.
So you decide he is a greedy, mercenary doctor.
Surely if he had prescribed lengthy, expensive treatments, and frequent repeat visits, he and the hospital would make much more money out of your condition.
I bet he also said ' give it a rest, and it will heal itself.' Good advice if he did.
Out of curiosity, and without wanting to breach medical confidentiality, (P.C. here.) did you get any further treatment that fixed the problem, or did it resolve itself?

[Atari Charles]

Roger are you the one that was/is married to "Monster"?

[vikdk]

Good on ya roger � just came in from a hard days shopping � needed a bit of Crimean war comedy to cheer me up.

Who remembers Florence Nightingale � well she died in 1910 Roger my ol� son � an by all accounts, even though Florence was a pioneer of modern nursing, she was a real bitch, hardly the material for an ESL teacher. Who are next role models going to be � Lord Baden-Powell or maybe Robin Hood?
Adaptability? When you write something so inane as your thoughts on the Chinese and there ability to adapt to conditions outside their homeland � think before you write! Ever heard of the Morecambe Bay tragedy � 20 itinerant Chinese citizens drowned while picking shellfish at midnight for thug gang masters who paid them a pittance. That�s was In England Roger � only a year and a half back. I�ve never had to adapt to such an extent to live here Roger � have you?
Roger I always get the impression, while reading between the lines of your hugely entertaining posts, that you somehow consider ESL teaching to be a sort of spiritual vocation rather than a profit making activity � are you going for ESL sainthood Roger � if so will you get a pay raise when you are canonized?

[Drizzt]

I think of it like this--it's all about supply and demand.

To begin with China has some of the lowest credentials for teaching so it attracts people who are willing to settle for a lower income. For example, how many other countries can you think of where you can work in a university with only a BA? This is one perk I particularly like as the university teaching is more laid back than teaching children.

China is also possibly the easiest country to find work in as an ESL teacher. When I first began searching for jobs online, I at first wanted to work in Latin America, but after weeks of no luck, I decided to give China a shot. ONE WEEK LATER I WAS ON A PLANE TO BEIJING! No interview or anything. I know China has a lot of great teachers, all I'm saying is because of the ease of finding a job and the low credentials, a larger pool of people are willing to come which drives down the salary. Also many people place value on the experience they get from coming to China, not to mention the chance to learn Chinese can be a valuable asset in the future. For all these reasons I think the salary is a pretty reasonable pay.

I agree with the other posters, you will never save a tremendous amount in dollars, but what you make here is plenty of live on. When you consider that housing is free, food is cheap, and only a fraction of your income is taxed then 4000 RMB is plenty.

By the way, as a general rule of thumb, most public school and universities pay about 1000 RMB a month for every 4 teaching hours a week.

[dajiang]

As you can see here, it's different for all of us.
I like to think it really depends on your bargaining skills as well, and of your employer's bargaining skills of course.

It's all going to be decided when you talk about the contract.
If you present yourself in a strong way, with lots of credentials, experience and knowledge, you can work out a far far better deal than the one your colleague has. It helps if you've got experience in China and Chinese ways, and if you speak (some) Chinese too. Just be professional and don't be intimidated.

So, read all of these posts, and take any advice people here give, but be prepared for something completely different for yourself, because it's all up to you when you're talking about the contract.

4000 is quite low, I'd say. So try to get at least 5500-6000, and this is for 18 to 20 hours/week. Overtime should of course be paid (100/120 an hour), and any extra duties like English corners, or business trips (representing the school trying to recruit new students).
Oh, and all secondary benefits too: housing, end-of-year-bonus, and airfare.

And then you've gotta hope you won't get screwed by the school.

Dajiang

[vikdk]

A revelation � mideatoo is roger!!!! Examine both their posts here and see if you agree.

Roger writes in his last post - We are swamped by mercenary "techers" who have nothing other than their anglophone nationalitiy to offer � Anglophones??? Hey gotta go for sec � the Anglophones ringing.

While mideatoo gives us his little gem - Are you now lurking at Asian girls � lurking at girls??? Come on guys lets go and lurk at the chicks!!!

Check the grammar out as well - Roger grammar - Living in China takes more adaptability from a Westerner than it takes adaptability from a Chinese to work in your country. � wow that is evil sentence construction, so evil its almost artistic!

Using his mideatoo alias he doesn�t quite reach these heights, but the same lack of basic grammatical structure also prevails - with your ATARI console and one of your favorite crayon? �However look back in his posts and you�ll find his Rogeresque clangers.

Are these the same guys? I know this issue could hardly be called important � but darn it folks � I�m just plain curious

[vikdk]

The mideatoo post was just erased � put it back, we need it for evidence!!!

[Atari Charles]

Mideatoo Reprints

[abufletcher]

[vikdk]

Quite correct Mr. Buff Lecher _ My 16 class hours are from Tuesday to Friday � Monday is preparation day � and there also comes some prep in between classes � so in the end the true working week often comes nearer 30 � marking work and meetings will also add to the hours of many teachers. Problem is though, since most of us are paid by the class hour, we�re always rabling on about them and not our true work time.

Silly us � we should know better!!!

[jeffinflorida]

4000 rmb a month is not a good wage. Prices are not so cheap that you can live on this and still save money - unless you live like a Chinese and eat the crap they eat and be happy. If you can eat a bowl of noodles for breakfast, a bowl of rice and some bachoy for lunch, and a little better dinner then you can live fine on 20rmb a day. But if you want real food and real living then 4000rmb a month will not sustain you.

I made 8000rmb a month for 24 periods and did a bunch of side jobs that made another 2000-4000 a month and this was acceptable.

The reason they offer 4000 a month is simply - FTs come here and say "Sure that sounds like a great wage..."

The FTs in this area have banded together to say we will not accept less than 250rmb an hour for side work.

[vikdk]

Wow Jeff how long are those periods...24 is an awful lot, and extra work on top! 250/hour with that work rate makes you a mega richman � when you holding your next party baby!!!

Realistically anything over 200/hour is difficult to achieve for the normal teach � but under 100 for the experienced and competent china vet is nothing more than insult. I believe 150/hour is a realistic goal for many of us � even though starting at a pittance may be a necessary evil for the China newbie.

You guys banded up down there � good on ya � what you do when cheap foreign labor walks into your town - call the teamsters? No seriously give us some tips on how you organize yourselves.