Job Discussion Forums

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[kamome]

It's a fair point but when we learn a language most people learn a "neutral" version that can be used widely. Is there any point learning, say, Osaka-ben? I think Osaka people would soften their accents and drop their slang if they were talking to a foreigner in Japanese.

Likewise an English speaker from whatever country automatically "softens" their accent when talking to a foreigner ( or at least they should do if they're trying to be helpful ). German for example has a neutral version ( Hochdeutsch ) that is used to talking to Germans from other parts of the country and this is the version usually learned by foreign students. The Germans use their own regional dialect at home.

If you spoke in a broad New York or Yorkshire accent it would be a dis-service to the student ( unless they were going to live in one of those places ). Also a lot of the time a Japanese might use English abroad would be with non-native speakers anyway so a "neutral" English is the best.

Just my opinion anyway.

[Brooks]

think about it this way. I used to take Japanese classes with a man from Aomori Ken. Sometimes I really had to strain to understand him.
Class was held on Friday nights, so when I was the most tired. I always had to drink coffee during class in order to concentrate. He was a nice person, but the class was far away too. In the end I stopped going to the class. I tend to learn by listening, so I prefer having a teacher who does not have a strong accent.

[Wolf]

I have never, ever had a Japanese student who could differentiate between accents of English teachers. Including some who had Indian and Bangladeshi teachers (nothing against teachers from either place, but they seem to me to have a different accent from mine.)

I could tell Kansai ben when I heard it. In China, I can tell the difference between Cantonese, Mandarin, and the local dialect that people speak here. Not bad for 5 months. I think that perhaps - just perhaps they're not trying.

I remember the massive British/US debate. If you (as a student) can't tell by listening, then is it truly so important to your existance?

[april]

I agree with Wolf. I have never had a student who could tell accents apart, so that's why I find this current argument self-indulgent. There was only one teacher in my school that student's complained they couldn't understand, but that's because he mumbled. I couldn't understand him either. My school, by the way, had teachers from Scotland, Australia, Canada, USA, England, Ireland and Australia.

When I went through my training I was told that under no circumstances should I purposely change my accent nor speak very slow. For low-level students I spoke with very short sentences at normal pace, but with a pause between each sentence.

But back to the original OP, I can totally relate. Many of my students took a rather black & white approach to English; there must be only one correct answer, everything else is wrong. I explained that English is a form of expression, it isn't maths. Usually this ended those endless and pointless arguments!

[cafebleu]

Good topic, with posters being able to disagree without resorting to vehement attacks!

The clearness or acceptability of certain accents nearly always is down to the bias of those that speak in those accents. For example, Americans think their accent is the best and Australians` accents are nasal and unclear. Yet Australians and New Zealanders find some American accents unclear, and in the words of some people I know: `Don`t you hate the way some American guys especially sound whiny - it really grates.` I am not saying I agree - I am saying that an unclear or difficult to listen to accent is in the ears of the beholder.

My position on this is - try this experiment. When you meet a new Japanese person who speaks English and doesn`t know where you are from, wait for it and they will usually be unable to place your accent when you ask them `What country do you think I am from?`

I also don`t think it is a major drama if an English teacher says `holiday` instead of `vacation`. Both words are easy to understand. You can also give the `flats` and `apartments` words - as well as other examples. The difference is ultimately minor. What matters is if you work for a school that advertises itself as a British English or American English school. Then you have to use whatever is designated by your school.

As for accents - I`ll give a salient example of why we native English speakers worry more about them than the Japanese. Passport and Passport Plus are low level books but use them on just about any student who hasn`t lived in the USA, Britain, Australia, New Zealand or Canada, and you will find the same response - What country does this English speaker come from? I don`t know. America???????

This despite the fact that the different accents are played up so the difference will be noticeable. It`s a bit of a non issue, I think.

[saloc]

I agree with Cafebleu that most students can't place an accent, and that it would be very difficult to justify why one accent is better than any other. What does annoy me though is when teachers from one country "correct" students for using another kind of English. I've seen British teachers "correct" American English and Americans "correcting" British English when used by students. I know we can`t know every variation in vocabulary etc but I do think that some teachers need to pause for thought before jumping in and correcting what is perfectly acceptable.

[As Das Fads]

yes yes yes! After being told just this week by two teachers that my Australian accent would be difficult to understand, they were both stumped when another native-English speaker said: so what country am I from then? Neither of them could guess she was Australian.

I don't speak in Strine, nor have any of my students ever had any problems understanding what I say. I have been told that I don't speak like "other Australians" (whatever that means) or that my accent isn't as strong. Considering that Australia continues to be a very popular holiday destination for the Japanese, I could only see benefits in exposure to many accents including Australian. It's not the most sexy of sounds, but hell, I like it!

Anybody got any good comebacks for this kind of behaviour? I really really want to stoop down to the level of "yeah well at least I don't speak ENGRISH" but I have refrained...however with each passing day it becomes more difficult.

/end rant

[Glenski]

Just as an aside, someone on another discussion forum boasted about how proud he was that he had no accent. He said he had grown up in a section of the USA where people speak clearly enough that there was no accent. Despite several people's attempts to explain that everyone has an accent, and that he just had a clearer one than most Americans, the poster became agitated and upset in his denial. I will not finger Americans for being so self-centered or lacking worldliness, but this guy was pretty much a prime example of those qualities.

People often need to get out and experience something before they believe it, I guess.

[april]

[Glenski]

Just tell them that there is more than one accent/dialect in Australia, and move on. Many people, especially Americans, have not been exposed to many foreigners, and their main perceptions stem largely from movies.

[As Das Fads]

[markosonlines]

Oiii,

Apparently I don't sound very Australian either, though I do think after a year or so teaching most of us tend to drop the accent, then pick it up again when surrounded by our 'mates' again.

I tell my students to go for a James Bond accent myself. He's smooth, clear and sounds educated and sophisticated, or did when Sean Connery had the role. Does well with the birds. No susbstitute for a good vocabulary and a witty personality though is it?
You can't polish a turd

One great thing about being Australian is being well exposed to different versions of English through media. BBC, CNN, terrible American sitcoms, the Ashes, Billy Connoly..... Above that we have lots of 'boat-people,' ourselves included, and hear an assortment of English because of it. My favorite Aussie English accents are indigenous. They sound really oka and in my opinion are the most authentic.

Gotta love it.

As for the dictionaries, I have to admit since reading this post I have been feeling uncomfortable whenever a student pulls one out. Thankfully it doesn't happen much except for one student who, haha, is in Australia right now. I wonder if he's pulling it out of his pocket during the last quarter of Sunday's game between the Dockers and the Roos, assuming he took my advice and got tickets.

Go Dockers,

Markos

[David W]

[nomadder]

Often as far as the Japanese are concerned there is only one right way-that which is needed for their tests based on some kind of "Standard American". Even I was told I was speaking "wrong" once with my Canadian accent which differs very little from the average American one of course. High level speakers can hear accent differences. Even my advanced students had often not learned British words and were shocked to learn of things such as lorries. They study American English because they get lots of media, etc. from that culture and some will be transferred to the company branch in America so it makes sense. Even I sometimes cannot understand other English speakers. Brits often mumble and there are so many variations in the accent and pronunciation. While talking with Kiwi friends we were often saying "What?" to one another. So I can understand where the Japanese are coming from.