Job Discussion Forums

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

...on Canadians having trouble in Korea. Linked to the General Asia forum.

http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?p=314005#314005

Jizzo T. Clown · Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:59 pm Post subject:

So the Korean govt is cracking down on illegal teachers, eh?

What's that all aboot? I say good riddance. I only wish the US had similar views on illegal immigrants.

Justin Trullinger · Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:35 pm Post subject:

Maybe a crack down on the unqualified will increase opportunities for the true professionals. It seems a bit unlikely, but we can always hope...

Dear Jizzo,
The interesting thing is, many people in the US do feel the same way you do about illegal immigration. And in general, the laws reflect this. The US has some of the world's strictest immigration laws.
And yet, the laws often go unenforced. Do you suppose this is because many powerful economic interests benefit from an illegal labour force which doesn't have the same legal protections as a legal worker would?
So maybe the crackdown should try to hit the employers, who exploit these people for their own benefit, as well as the workers, who are generally driven by needs that some of us would have a hard time imagining? Just my two cents worth...

Regards,
Justin

Jizzo T. Clown · Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:57 pm Post subject:

Good stuff, JT.

In America, the illegals are doing mostly blue-collar work like factories, assembly lines, etc.

In Korea, the illegals are TEACHING CHILDREN!!!

A bit of a discrepancy here?

I agree that it's more profitable for the corporations to have cheap labor on hand so they can afford to pay their executives more...sad but true. That being said, we're probably going to have this problem for a LONG time.

As for Korea, I was considering moving there, but with this new-found (?) attitude towards foreign teachers, I'd just as soon move to the Middle East!

Gordon · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan

They have always cracked down on illegal teachers in Korea. This is nothing new. I taught illegally many many many years ago there and was always on the look out. A common method they had to catch people was to reply to teacher's ads on bulletin boards. I would never agree to teach anyone that was not recommended from someone I knew.

The article fails to notice that one of the big reasons there are so many illegal teachers is because the schools treat teachers so badly and visas there are inflexible. Your visa is tied to your school, if you leave your job, you have to leave the country. Many do and then come back as a tourist. This is what I did and the reason Cdns seem to be targeted in the article is because it is a Cdn paper and Cdns get a 6 month tourist visa (along with Aussies and Kiwis). Also it is illegal to teach privately, which is where the money is. Some employers turn a blind eye to it, but immigration may not.

I made in 4 hours/week what I earned teaching f/t on a 30 hr week contract. You can see the temptation to forego the schools.
Laughing

some waygug-in · Joined: 07 Feb 2003 Posts: 339

The article is one-sided. It paints all "illegal" teachers as being unqualified bums who are too lazy to go to school.

The truth is not so simple. It says nothing about the countless qualified people who have been duped into working illegally by shady directors.
Once the teacher finds out what is going on, it's usually too late. They are already in Korea and already working. If they try to report their situation, it's usually they themselves that get into trouble while the schools get off without even a slap on the wrist.

This especially happens to people who are new to Korea and don't know what these guys will do, but it can happen to anyone.

Like me for example.

I applied for my job legally. I am qualified to be here. My boss wanted me to start work right away, so I did. This was never a problem for me before, as the last 2 schools I worked at got my visa in the works right away and within a couple of weeks I had my visa.

This guy kept humming and hawing and saying that it was Immigration who was causing the delay. I had no way of checking because I was too far away from the immigration office to go and ask. (and no, I doubt very much that I could have called them because my Korean is not so good) If I wanted to visit immigration, I would have had to take a day off work and that would have been a breech of my contract. (for which I could be fired without pay, fined and deported)

So for 3 months I was working illegally and there was nothing I could do about it.........other than leave, which I couldn't afford to do. It's not so easy to just pack up and leave when you don't have the money.
Why did I stay? I basically had no choice and getting some money is better than getting no money.

Why do directors do this? So they can short teachers on pay and the teacher has no legal recourse.. .....and that's exactly what happened to me.

I'm not saying there isn't a problem with unqualified people, but the article doesn't paint a very clear picture of what's really going on.

Gordon · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan

That's very true about schools. I was cheated every way possible by my employer which is why I left after 6 months.

People in Japan complain about schools treating them badly, most of the time it is nothing like Korea. Until the law protects foreign workers and up the market more, Korea will always be a difficult place to work.

As an example of the hypocrisy, a friend of mine had a job (illegally) teaching English to immigration officers. Shocked

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

Gordon · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

Actually, this is exactly why I didn't take up a newspaper job and went straight to freelance. Toeing the corporate line was never my forte.

To be fair, newshounds like Colin Freeze are under immense pressure to produce....fast. I have been toying with the idea of sending him an email to point him in another direction, for a more complete story.

some waygug-in · Joined: 07 Feb 2003 Posts: 339

I suspect the writer just read an article in a Korean paper or news source and then just wrote a very similar story.

Korean papers are not noted for their complimentary view of foreign teachers. Laughing

I might add that this latest "crackdown" seems to be part of an ongoing
effort by the government which was brought on by the "Spectrumgate"
affair. I wonder if the idiots who posted their playboy fantasies on that forum are proud of the mess they have made for everyone else. Confused

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

some waygug-in · Joined: 07 Feb 2003 Posts: 339

Here's what teachers in Korea are saying:

http://www.eslcafe.com//forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=45923&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

Confused

expatben · Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:54 am Post subject:

Now, I have never taught in Korea but I have taught in China illeagly. Basically I was a niave guy just out of training. I was told it was the norm to get an L or tourist visa to save paperwork and then I would get a Z or teacher visa. I diddn't stay that long but I never got an L visa. Whos to blame? Well yes me I did knowlingly get an L visa not a Z. HOWEVER I was told on good faith that I would get the right visa and was lied too. I think schools are just as much to blame as teachers.

some waygug-in · Joined: 07 Feb 2003 Posts: 339

I think everyone ought to read this kid's story before they think about coming to Korea.

http://www.englishschoolwatch.org/notebook_detail.php?topic_id=2163

Certainly, not everyone's experience is like this, but...you just never know.

Recruiters and schools who hire illegally are as much to blame as any teachers, if not more so. Why are the schools not getting into trouble?