Job Discussion Forums

[reality]

After visiting Thailand on vacation this year. I now understand, why 'Teachers' with work experience in Thailand, would find it very difficult to find a reasonable job elsewhere in Asia.

Most of the Teachers I met where drunk, stoned or messing around with
low class Thai Hookers. Few had the money to go to better more up-
market places in Thailand, and the locals looked down on them.

I guess this is the cheap 'White Monkey' Syndrone, which probably describes how 'farang' Teachers are treated in Thailand, and how locals look upon them.

Another thing that amazed me, was working conditions, local salaries and
the way you were treated by the locals, seemed much better in Cambodia,
Laos, Indonesia and Vietnam.

Countries, Thai's look down upon as being 'primitive abnd poor', yet the
local peopole can afford to offer much more to Teachers.

[khmerhit]

I'm not exactly sure what the gist of your post is, but if you mean to say that teachers get more respect in other parts of southeast asia than they do in Thailand, you could be right. I doubt you could place Singapore in that equatiion, however.

Two things might explain this if it is true: demand and supply and familiarity with native English speakers. Bangkok gets a lot of people passing through, and tourists keep the economy going. Hence the famous contempt, bred of familiarity, that one receives from the smiling Thais. (Nothing to compare to the contempt of Parisians, etc etc.)

It's true that there are a lot of messed up English instructors in Bangkok.
there are also a few messed up engineers, NGOS, psychiatrists and I could go on. I know a few. What's your point? Bangkok is one of the ultima thules of the world, so it stands to reason. There are also a lot cokeheads in London and junkies in New York, etc etc.

[gregnum]

Dear Reality,

Don't be so sure that the basic conditions for teachers in other nearby countries to Thailand are better.
From my personal experience of being and teaching there, I can tell you that Cambodia is a dangerous place to live there ( and don't let anybody else to sell you any other different stories. It's a fact).

Vietnam is a communist country which officially prohibited any relationships between 'Flanag' and local woman.
The people there are well known with their notorious reputation.
The people in Laos are definitely extremely freindly, but still the country as a cumminist country has the same disadvantages as I mentioned about Vietnam.

So, these are the details and the facts. Thus, everyone can makes his own priorities and personal choices.

Good luck.

[khmerhit]

You're full of it--- regarding Cambodia. I cant speak for the other places you disparage. If you lived there before 1998 you may be entitled to say it was dangerous, but strictly speaking it hasnt been dangerous since 1996, and then the worst danger was drinking and driving.

I met the Bulgarian ambassador to Cambodia, a now permanent resident. he told me that in 1992-3 during UNTAC, his soldiers' casualties came mostly from motorcycle accidents. He wrote to their mothers to tell them they had died in action.

Cambodia has been perfectly safe since the coup in 97, in which no foreigners were killed. Its true that there were robberies in Phnom Penh at sporadic times that year and subsequently, but nothing like western cities.

Do not listen to this poster. Cambodia is OK.

[reality]

I wouldn't generalize about Thailand's neighbours too much. Cambodia is probably less dangerous than New York or any American City.

It may feel safe in Thailand, but after meeting many expatriates who live in Thailand, most negative reports about Thailand are discouraged and
rarely printed.

As for Laos and Vietnam being Communist. It may be true over 15 years ago, but the Cold War ended in 1990. Vietnam is Socialist not Communist, and free enterprise is freely encouraged, unlike the Multi- National concept of 'Free Enterprise' in the USA.

Laos is Buddhist-Socialist, not Communist, although I admit the Country is freer for foreigners than the USA. Given the huge amount of drug Tourists and backpackers hanging around Vang Vieng for long preriods of time.

Believing the TAT and Media hype about Thailand, is believing Thailand is a paradise not a very average Tropical Country, overly dependent on Tourism and American 'goodwill'.

I guess thats why conditions are better outside Thailand, and most Teachers enjoy a richer and more interesting life.

[sigmoid]

While I would agree that a lot of the people teaching in Thailand are less than savory characters, your assertion that "working conditions, local salaries and
the way you were treated by the locals, seemed much better in Cambodia,
Laos, Indonesia and Vietnam" is a highly interesting and debatable point.

Of course, you used the word "seemed" since you were only vacationing, not teaching in these countries, right?

Laos has very few schools and almost no economy. Cambodia isn't that safe. It was just six months ago that they had anti-Thai riots in which one person was killed and several were injured.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/southeast/02/03/thai.cambodia/
http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/01/29/cambodia030129

People I've talked to who worked in Medan, Indonesia said the pay wasn't that great and they didn't feel safe. Indonesia is a big place though, so maybe you're refering to some other part.

Vietnam may be the one country that does actually offer more than Thailand in terms of quality of life with numerous jobs, solid rates of pay and a low cost of living.

Yes, Thailand certainly isn't a paradise and the pay is generally pathetic, but without some facts, figures and first-hand information your argument in terms of Laos, Cambodia and Indonesia is difficult to accept.

Maybe you could provide us with some specific examples of what you mean.

[Tabitha Smallpiece]

Reading the original posting it would appear that reality is rather fond of the low life as he or she appears to have been somewhat immersed in said low life on vacation.

Perchance judgement is clouded by a haze of waccy baccy and booze fumes, generalisation is a poor course to follow. Some of us here in Thailand are indeed totally respectable and indeed well paid, some are smackheads too. What group did you mix with realite [/i]

[reality]

I actually worked in Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, Indonesia and Thailand for
around Ten years. I was not on vacation, when I worked in these Countries. although, like others working in these Countries, you stumble across Tourists etc.

I guess you mis-understood my original posting, and made negative assumptions from it.

Simply put, Teaching to me has been more financially rewarding in other Countries comparable to Thailand. The benefits have been great, with longer vacations and bigger bonuses. Then I found most teachers earned,
when they worked in Thailand.

I also found, when the majority of Teachers in other Asian Countries, can live in a house or a spacious Apartment, and afford to have weekends and
eat in expatriate hang-outs.

Most teachers I met in Thailand, livedin a one room 'Apartment', and could not afford, what other TEFL Teachers in Neigbouring countries take for granted.

One reason I opted out a contract with a good School in Bangkok, to
an average School in Saigon. Simply because, I could afford to live well, save and travel. I also had free weekends and Six to Eight weeks paid vacation per year.

I doubt many Thai Schools would even attempt to match the Teachers
Contract packages, in neighbouring poorer Countries.

[Tabitha Smallpiece]

Reality, I note your reply well I have lived and worked here in Thailand for some twelve years. As a qualified teacher I was and indeed still am committed to the principles of teaching, I am not primarily motivated by money.

I have never been involved in the language school scenario, although I am well aware of its workings and indeed the standards involved as such places.Such places and employee's and indeed employer's do indeed project a negative picture of Thailand and teachers in general sad to say

I get twelve weeks a year paid holiday, plus all public holidays and weekends free too , as do all my staff. We, ( my wife and our 3 rugrats ) live in a spacious house complete with maid and nanny, and indeed a driver *beep* handyman.

Perhaps if you were better qualified or could have stuck the course you would have been in a senior post here in Thailand with all the attendant trimmings.

Life is what one makes it, you do seem to have made it where you are, however you were rather pompous in tarring all teachers here in Thailand with the same brush. Possibly the next time you come here on vacation you might be better advised to steer away from the low life you seem to despise and indeed look down upon. '' Judge not others lest you may be judged yourself '' ! [/b]

[Lee_Marrero]

Whoever posted that Phnom Penh is safer than New York really has no idea what they are talking about. First of all you need first to identify what "safe" means. If it means not getting pickpocketed, your bag snatched or your stuff stolen from your room you are definitly better off in New York. I was born and raised in NY and never heard of anyones stuff getting stolen from their hotel room (commonplace in any SE Asian city). True I have had friends pickpocketed on the subway etc but not to the extent of what happens in SEA. Or does safe mean that you pay the right price for a taxi ride, something to eat or merchandise? They are apples and oranges you cant compare. Crime in NY or even in the much more "dangerous" Los Angeles that draws a headline "man shot in head" etc are 90% realted to organized crime/drugs and do not affect the common man in the least. In Cambodia 500 dollars buys a hitman to take someone out, I dont call that safe. If you want to compare New World cities to SEA compare Mexico City, Rio de Janeiro, Los Angeles, or even downtown Vancouver. NY of 20 years ago has been hard to erase from memory but those of us who truly know the city realize that apartment rents have gone up 11% in the last year alone, there are less homicide here than in New Orleans, and that city in jam packed full of yuppies and executives enjoying gentrification of neighborhoods that once housed immigrants and the working class but are now relegated to living in New Jersey and commuting an hour or more daily to serve the needs of the elite who have taken over the city.
I can guarantee you will be safe in NYC from everything except the scowl of some pasty white executive who wonders what your doing in his neighborhood.
Sorry for such a long post but I hate people who post with ignorance

[khmerhit]

Yes, youre quite right. sorry to slander New York, but I wasnt really singling that beautiful burg out per se. what i meant was, compared to most cities in the west, Phnom Penh is proportionally speaking not very dangerous. I lived there for a few years and got pickpocheted a few times,
thoug I dont really consider that a safety or security thing. thats mostly to do with poor kids or adolescent gangs and is pretty universal. What i meant was that, although i did see several robberies there and knw=ew a lot of peole who got held up, it never happened to me and frankly i dont think it was that strange in a severely impoverished city where numerous cashed-up westerners were or are living. Mayvbe it is still going on, but proportionately speaking, compared to the very wealthy cities of the west, from Liverpool to Vancouver, the number of robberies and muggings truly is negligible, and it certainly isnt a reason to stay away from Cambodia..