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romaitas
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 6
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 Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:53 pm Post subject: another lost soul looking for advice |
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Hi!
Let me give you some background about myself. I am originally from corn country (Iowa). I did well in high school, took Ap classes etc. I attended college for one year at St. John's University in Queens. After my first year I 'dropped out.' However, it wasn't due to poor grades or difficulty. School was just too restrictive for me and I always had a yearning for something more...which I can�t put into words. I currently live in Manhattan and am working as a real estate appraiser (go figure) to get by.
I have always had a passion for traveling and experiencing new cultures. A friend referred me to a program he heard of called TESOL. I have been looking into it for the past year but never had the time, until now, to begin the process.
Last night I attended a seminar held by www.tesolworld.com. I must admit I was extremely thrilled when I left. The program seems to promise a lot of things...It almost seems too easy. Has anyone had experience with this program/company (I am sure some of you have)? Is it the right move for the position I'm in?
That is what brings me to this forum. I want to know how to get out of here! Does anyone have any advice for me? I am 19 years of age, have a high school diploma and one year of college under my belt.
Money is not an issue to me as long as I have enough to get by. I adapt extremely well to new environments and "culture shock" has never hit me when I have traveled abroad. I want to leave this summer because my lease ends in June. I plan on living abroad for a few years.
Btw, I want to teach in Italy or Prague (anywhere in Europe is fine with me). I want to finish my degree overseas.
For people in NYC: I would love to sit down and talk about your experiences or any advice you might have.
Sorry for rambling on�I am so excited for your responses =)
--Thanks |
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denise
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 3419
Location: finally home-ish
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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Welcome to the forum! Your enthusiasm and confidence are encouraging. Be warned, though, that even with a TEFL certificate, it will be difficult to get jobs without a BA. Not impossible, but difficult. Sometimes it's a requirement for a visa, sometimes it's a requirement of the language school. And without an EU passport, Italy and Prague will be difficult. Italy more so than Prague, since the CR has only recently entered the European Union. Keep these things in mind as you're doing your research. They're not insurmountable obstacles, but you will need to find ways around them. Good luck!
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Cdaniels
Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 663
Location: Dunwich, Massachusetts
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:43 pm Post subject: Teaching English in Poland |
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Taken from Transitionsabroad.com about Poland
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| Any number of school directors are delighted to interview native English speakers who present themselves in a professional manner. But it must be borne in mind that although the reverence for native speakers of English still runs high, the EFL public in Poland has slowly become more selective. Interested teachers should not expect to be snapped up by every high-quality school to which they apply unless they have at least a TEFL certificate and some sort of teaching experience. |
this was under "Overview of Job Prospects for Teaching English in Central and Eastern Europe" where Poland was recommended as having the most opportunities for teaching in Europe. |
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Gregor
Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 842
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 8:57 am Post subject: |
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The good news is that you CAN find some sort of teaching job, especially if you have a TEFL certificate and you're there in the country.
If you're in town, you can find a job. That's that. Especially in Eastern Europe, but Italy as well.
In Europe, not being an EU citizen, you'll be working illegally. In most places you will be working illegally if you have no baccalaureate level degree (an assicoates degree doesn't count). But you will be working.
After one year's experience at ONE job, you'll find your life getting even easier. Two finished contracts will be even better.
BUT! My advice would be to finish your degree as soon as humanly possible. You are 19. Some people are still in high school when they are 19. I don't care how you feel, you are YOUNG, and when you are YOUNG is when you need to get this stuff taken care of.
I'm 40 now. I never earned a degree. I now hold my Licentiate from Trinity and have almost ten years' experience, some of that as a DoS, so the no degree thing isn't causing me serious trouble anymore. But if I had got one before, I'd have made my life a holy hell of a lot easier. And that simple fact of life is becoming more and more true.
I'm not going to lie to you - you can get work with just a TEFL and no degree, maybe even at your early age. But, the rest of you people, do NOT lead him wrong - tell him I am right. Especially in TEFL, especially these days, he wants a degree.
OP, your future is at stake. Forget about your present, just for as long as the degree thing takes. That's all. THEN you can feel free to live for the moment. Take my word for it. I have always - always - lived just for the moment, the future be damned. And in all my life, I only have one serious regret, and not getting a degree is it. Even China is starting to crack down on that, and that is just absurd - there is no way they could fill their huge demand for foreign teachers even if they issued work permits for free. If you knew China, it would scare you right back into uni. Please finish your degree, for your own good. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Gregor wrote: |
The good news is that you CAN find some sort of teaching job, especially if you have a TEFL certificate and you're there in the country.
If you're in town, you can find a job. That's that. Especially in Eastern Europe, but Italy as well.
In Europe, not being an EU citizen, you'll be working illegally. In most places you will be working illegally if you have no baccalaureate level degree (an assicoates degree doesn't count). But you will be working.
After one year's experience at ONE job, you'll find your life getting even easier. Two finished contracts will be even better.
BUT! My advice would be to finish your degree as soon as humanly possible. You are 19. Some people are still in high school when they are 19. I don't care how you feel, you are YOUNG, and when you are YOUNG is when you need to get this stuff taken care of.
I'm 40 now. I never earned a degree. I now hold my Licentiate from Trinity and have almost ten years' experience, some of that as a DoS, so the no degree thing isn't causing me serious trouble anymore. But if I had got one before, I'd have made my life a holy hell of a lot easier. And that simple fact of life is becoming more and more true.
I'm not going to lie to you - you can get work with just a TEFL and no degree, maybe even at your early age. But, the rest of you people, do NOT lead him wrong - tell him I am right. Especially in TEFL, especially these days, he wants a degree.
OP, your future is at stake. Forget about your present, just for as long as the degree thing takes. That's all. THEN you can feel free to live for the moment. Take my word for it. I have always - always - lived just for the moment, the future be damned. And in all my life, I only have one serious regret, and not getting a degree is it. Even China is starting to crack down on that, and that is just absurd - there is no way they could fill their huge demand for foreign teachers even if they issued work permits for free. If you knew China, it would scare you right back into uni. Please finish your degree, for your own good. |
A word or two from an ELT vet in Japan. Using Japan as an example, there are a lot of people coming over here on working holiday visas (which Americans can't get) and taking anything that moves, no matter how poorly paid. the net result is that employers now know that foriegn teachers can be bought off and when they are desperate for work thrown crumbs. salaries are now going down to a point where its a case of living hand to mouth and you earn less than if you worked in a fast food restaurant at home. Throw in airfare, accomodation, expenses in an exotic country where you dont speak the language. it may take you six months to a year to break even on your initial expenses when you are earning the equivalent of $10 an hour. You end up living pay check to pay check and one or two pay checks from insolvency. in China the average monthly pay of a non-degreed foreign teacher is about $500-600 a month, even with accomodation and airfare thrown in. Imagine what happens if you have to go home suddenly, you need an operation and yo cant afford the airfare?
In Japan too, big cities are awash with young people who have working visas and experience and anytime you quit a job you will be bumping up against people who are far more qualified (with just a BA which is what employers look for and demand) and more experienced, and they have valid work visas. You meanwhile get the scraps that no one else wants.
i know this is hard for you to understand at 19, but most countries having a degree is an absolute, rock bottom minimum requirement, because the immigration authorities in those countries Japan, Korea, Taiwan and recently china require a degree to process your work permit. You cna work under the table on a tourist visa and do visa runs every 90 days but its a hell of a way to get started in the business. If you are not an EU citizen you can not work in Europe.
get the degree out of the way- you can do it in anything, as long as you graduate with a bachelors degree and then apply for a work visa. an employer can not sponsor your visa unless he gets approval from immigration. the visa comes first, then the job. It gets much harder to study for a degree when you have a full time job, perhaps a spouse and you are living in a foreign country. you then have to do a degree by distance or in the case of one of my friends, leave his wife in japan and spend a year back home getting a Masters. he gets no income during this time too.
Salary you earn varies depending on the country and the more qualifications and experience you have, the more you get paid. I currently have a graduate degree, teach full time and support dependents on my salary. You have to start somewhere, like I did with a humble freshly minted BA many years ago, and work your way up. A lot depends on your short and long term goals, where you want to live and work and where you see yourself in five years.
Get the degree, get the visa and then the money will find its way to you, rather than existing on the fringes in low paid menial jobs in some thirdworld country. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, my two cents worth on Prague, in particular. The city's got loads of teacher training centres, and therefore tons of newly-certified teachers hitting the streets on a regular basis looking for work (not everybody opts to stay in the city, but a good percentage give it a try for a while at least). In short - the competition is pretty serious. At your young age and without a degree, you can still probably find a job - but it's not likely to be one of the better ones.
Go for the degree!
Or, ok, go for a year off and experience it all; but be sure you have some decent savings always in reach to offset any little bad luck, and don't expect it to be easy. It'll be tough work - but the experience is rewarding, and maybe a year would inspire you to get that degree..... |
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romaitas
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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well i suppose I should hold until I have that all important piece of paper. I've only been out of college for a semester so I'm still on pace. Thanks for the responses. The more I think about it, the more it makes sense to go back to school.
One quick question though......I still want to take that TESOL class just to have under my belt. Does anyone recommend the program I looked into? www.tesolworld.com. Or if there are any others that would be good to take..let me know.
--thanks guys |
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Doglover
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 305
Location: Kansai
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| romaitas wrote: |
well i suppose I should hold until I have that all important piece of paper. I've only been out of college for a semester so I'm still on pace. Thanks for the responses. The more I think about it, the more it makes sense to go back to school.
One quick question though......I still want to take that TESOL class just to have under my belt. Does anyone recommend the program I looked into? www.tesolworld.com. Or if there are any others that would be good to take..let me know.
--thanks guys |
One final word,
People discount the degree because its not directly related to their jobs and they wonder why they need to spend four years at university just to teach their native language than just get a job straight away teaching English. Getting a teaching job (any job, as some simply require you are a native speaker with a visa to work) is fairly easy, making a career or a decent liveable income out of it or becoming a 'professional' where you can actually support yourself on it requires you develop certain skills and training.
What the degree program gives you is not only a wider body of knowledge to offer students, a larger vocabulary in English than a high school student, but it teaches you self-discipline and how to put off self-gratification. Rewards dont always come straight awy in ESL and a degree teaches you how to work towards a goal and achieve it. You spend 4 years getting that piece of paper and you dont give up. Same with employers they dont want to hire someone who thinks their job is too hard and boring and quit within 6 months. Doing a degree teaches you stickability. The degree also teaches you how to THINK.
Not only that you will be 4 years older and more mature, and can handle living overseas, not as a semi-tourist but working in a full time demanding job.
Good luck with your studies. |
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Gregor
Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 842
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| What the degree program gives you is not only a wider body of knowledge to offer students, a larger vocabulary in English than a high school student, but it teaches you self-discipline and how to put off self-gratification. |
Two things about the above quote -
One, it's a load of crap. A complete pile of dung. 100% incorrect, and it's elitist thinking. At 31 years old, I had already earned the equivilant of two or three degrees, and it cost me very little. It's called a LIBRARY, people. You do not have to go to university to get an education. And my life experience alone was worth more than any degree would be, as a teacher to my students.
Two, and much more germaine, it doesn't matter whether it's a load of crap or not. You don't have to agree with me OR the quote. What we think has nothing to do with it. If you have that degree, you will not have to worry about it. You will be able to find work. And you will be able to make a good and satisfying career in TEFL.
Could you anyway? I did, without a degree. But times are changing. I started in this business ten years ago. I don't know if I'd be successful starting NOW without the degree. I sure wouldn't want to try. |
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Doglover
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 305
Location: Kansai
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| Gregor wrote: |
[
Two things about the above quote -
One, it's a load of crap. A complete pile of dung. 100% incorrect, and it's elitist thinking. At 31 years old, I had already earned the equivilant of two or three degrees, and it cost me very little. It's called a LIBRARY, people. You do not have to go to university to get an education. And my life experience alone was worth more than any degree would be, as a teacher to my students.
Two, and much more germaine, it doesn't matter whether it's a load of crap or not. You don't have to agree with me OR the quote. What we think has nothing to do with it. If you have that degree, you will not have to worry about it. You will be able to find work. And you will be able to make a good and satisfying career in TEFL.
Could you anyway? I did, without a degree. But times are changing. I started in this business ten years ago. I don't know if I'd be successful starting NOW without the degree. I sure wouldn't want to try. |
yes, it is elitist thinking, but the fact remains that employers want a piece of paper saying that you have actually completed a course of study. The poster can only waltz into an interview and say "yes I have studied as hard and I have two degrees worth of knowledge but still nothing to show for it".
I know in Japan they are "certificate crazy" and no amount of self-justification will get you an interview if you dont have a degree. I can have a PhD worth of knowledge but i would stilll only be a high school graduate.
You can be educated and well read that is fine. But many people like the OP forgo university think they dont need or want a degree and then bump into brick walls when they cant get a work visa or the upper paying jobs are not open to them as they dont have the piece of paper.
Can you get a sponsored work visa with your vast amounts of unrecognised knowledge? Do you think it would have been a lot easy for you if you had done the degree? Are you suggesting he do what you did and sit in the library instead of go to school? I can learn how to perform open heart surgery by reading books or how to fly a jumbo jet but that doesnt make me a doctor or a pilot.
And im sure its when you are bumping into walls, its your life experience that gets you signed up in these online diploma mills which counts your work and life experience to a degree earnt online but isnt worth the paper its written on and not recognised anywhere. |
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Doglover
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 305
Location: Kansai
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| Gregor wrote: |
| I don't know if I'd be successful starting NOW without the degree. I sure wouldn't want to try. |
You answered your own question you would advise him NOT to get into the business without a degree as there is less chance of success even though you were able to, ten years ago. A degree will definitely increase his chances of success but in the other post you are saying he should just go and study in a library instead. I dont follow your thinking here. |
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denise
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 3419
Location: finally home-ish
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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Telling somebody to get a university degree is a load of crap?!?!? (Wow, have we gotten that rude on the forum again? Manners seem to come and go around here...)
Whether or not it is elitist, and whether or not you feel that a little scrap of paper is a worthy representation of your knowledge, experience, etc., that degree shows that the holder is mature enough and dedicated enough to follow the rules--even if he or she disagrees with them; thinks them elitist; thinks he/she is too worldly, experienced, etc. for mundane concerns like getting little pieces of paper, etc. And, let`s face it, when you work (whether in the teaching field or in fast food or anything else), there are RULES to play by. Arriving on time, being prepared, turning in grades and reports, following a dress code, etc. Someone who doesn`t follow the basic rule of getting the proper qualification might seem to employers to be a risk--will be follow the rules for me or not?
Getting that little piece of paper also shows a certain respect for the field, a respect that is unfortunately sorely lacking. It shows that the degree-holder recognizes that teaching is a job that does actually require some preparation. It`s not something that any ol`Joe Schmoe could do. Even a degree in an unrelated field shows a willingness to sit through classes, study, be in an academic environment (good preparation for working in schools!), etc.
Sorry, Gregor. Normally I respect what you write, but you saying someone else�s opinion is crap just really irked me.
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Doglover
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 305
Location: Kansai
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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Denise
I dont want to stick the knife in too much, but a record of Gregor's previous post (bet you didn't know we can see what you have posted, did you?) shows that he is 40, living somewhere in China, worked his way up to a DOS position speaks four language less than fluently and is now planning to go back to the US with no degree at the age of 40 with a young wife.
if it were me i would be very worried about my job prospects and supporting a wife on high school qualifications and a TESL certificate. This is not being elitist, but hes talking out two sides of his mouth. saying he has all this life experience, all this knowledge, yet hoping and praying someone will recognise this and give a 40 year old man a job when he comes home. MY guess is someone in his position would need at least a Masters degree to find something in TESOL or ESL back in the States.
He secretly wishes he had the pieces of paper to bulk up his resume but all he has to go on is a DOS in China which wont mean sh-it to an employer in the US.
I wish him the best of luck in his endeavors. I will happen to enjoy the fruits of my labor, as i am also planning to work in China from next year after many years teaching in Japan. |
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Sara Avalon
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 254
Location: On the Prowl
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| denise wrote: |
Getting that little piece of paper also shows a certain respect for the field, a respect that is unfortunately sorely lacking. It shows that the degree-holder recognizes that teaching is a job that does actually require some preparation. It`s not something that any ol`Joe Schmoe could do. Even a degree in an unrelated field shows a willingness to sit through classes, study, be in an academic environment (good preparation for working in schools!), etc.
d |
I totally agree.. it can help you understand what you're doing. Getting a degree in a subject area related to English, Linguistics, or Early Childhood Education will also help you understand the mechanisms of learning! If you don't know how students learn (at different age levels) it's tough as hell to be a teacher! Some teachers who are parents don't have this problem, but if you're 19 and you have no experience, you really need to soak up as much info as you possibly can so you can at least be half-prepared for the chore ahead.
Teaching is not a free picnic with money tumbling from the treetops and lesson plan sandwiches making themselves. It's work. You can't build a house without some form of structural supports and you sure as hell can't teach WELL without a degree that's related to what you'll be doing. Believe me, I've learned this the hard way and now all my money is going into savings to send me back to school to learn this trade those stinkin' TESOL head hunters failed to divulge. It's one thing to teach someone how to write a lesson plan, it's another thing to teach them the science behind learning.
-SA |
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Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I don't know if I'd be successful starting NOW without the degree. I sure wouldn't want to try. |
Ease off on Gregor, guys. He didn't say that the OP shouldn't get the degree. I agree that "a degree teaches you to think" is probably elitist thinking. Erm, from a lot of what I've seen, in many cases it's also wishful thinking.
And it teaches some people how to work and stick to things. It only teaches some to drink beer.
But not having a degree in this field presents barriers- Those of us without, or even without a relevant degree know that better opportunities in EFL are harder to come by. (Will have mine by Christmas! Get on with it, Gregor!) It won't make me any more educated, worldly, cultured, or hard working. But it will make me more eligible for further training and better jobs.
Get the degree! But keep in mind that there are many paths to enlightenment. Probably even more paths to education. The degree isn't the end of your studies. It's just one (good) way to start learning.
Regards,
Justin |
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