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argonfly707
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 46
Location: Taiwan
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 Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:48 pm Post subject: Procedure for coming to Taiwan |
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Hi Guys,
I finally think I have a contract that I like. However I am not to sure about the exact procedure that I need to go through now to get to Taiwan. I have talked to the consulate but they are pretty vague and don't seem to help much. Please let me know what I need to do such as obtain a visitor visa and anything else I might forget.
Thanks,
Argon |
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Supercords
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 11
Location: Utah for now
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| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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If you have a contract that you like, and sign it, won't they obtain an ARC for you? If so, there's no need to get a visitor's visa or any other visa at all. Right?
Shane |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 10:41 am Post subject: |
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Most people would advise against signing a contract before you arrive in Taiwan. You need to ask yourself why you would sign a contract comitting to a school you have possibly never visited? My guess is that you want to do this for security. You want to know that there is a job waiting for you when you get here. The fact is though that signing a contract overseas may not give you the security that you are seeking.
Supercords is correct that after signing a contract the employer could prepare all the paperwork so that you arrive here on a resident visa, but this is seldom the process. One reason is that the school in most cases will want to meet you first to make sure that you are as good in person as you seem overseas. If they obtained the work permit for you before you arrived then they would be pretty much comitting to someone they had never met, and any school that was willing to do this is probably a pretty desperate school and one that you don't really want to be working for in my opinion.
The best thing to do is to come here free of any obligation to any school or recruiter. It may sound crazy but it gives you the ultimate flexibility and chances are that you will find a better job here than you will from overseas.
Line up some interviews for after your arrival, interview with the schools, choose the one you like best and prepare everything here.
There is no visa for coming to Taiwan to look for work, so you will probably need to get a 60 day visitors visa for tourism purposes which will give you the opportunity to travel around and check out cities and schools. Once you have decided upon a city and a school you can apply for a work permit and resident visa. It is legal to begin work in the interim and while your paperwork is being processed. Everyone has different needs, but the above probably accurately sums up how most people get work here. |
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ramakentesh
Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Posts: 145
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| Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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And be prepared to really take your time with the schools here.
Dont be afraid to go with a chain at the start - Hess provide training and good job placements. |
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argonfly707
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 46
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks for your replys guys. Is there no positive comments about getting a contract first? When I was in my TESL course my instructor said she had had bad experiences both ways. Going first and also getting a contract first. The contact I have is through GMSC recruiting and the contract is then with Cosmos Education Consultant. Yes I have read the negatives about Cosmos but it is a chain school that I will be working for and I would feel more comfortable with that. Please can someone give me some positive about this I am obvisouly not opposed to hearing the negative it is good to see both sides but I am wondering if anyone has some positive about this situation. |
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teacha
Joined: 25 Aug 2005
Posts: 186
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| Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Dude,the worst of the wort employers, ethics, or owners of even chains are forced out to recruiters by STIFF COMPETITION & OVERUPPLY of westerners. Good jobs are hidden bad jobs and handed from BS covered hand to BS covered hand. The ARC you got, and contract terms, and pay are too regularly illegal to chance being blacklisted/deported over. That happens when you get involved with desperate chain branches, recruiters, etc. It'd why they exist. Cosmos is terribly rutheless googl their reputation as I did and find out for yourself as I did that their word is bad and so are their clients. Recruiting agencies are all illegal/not allowed by law. You work for the underworld if you work for one. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| argonfly707 wrote: |
| Is there no positive comments about getting a contract first? When I was in my TESL course my instructor said she had had bad experiences both ways. |
I think that it depends on how well you research things and also a bit of luck.
You could sign a contract with a school overseas, let them do everything for you, arrive and work for them for a year without any trouble. Then again it could become an absolute disaster.
On the flip side, you could arrive here first and then find difficulty landing a job which will eat into your savings, or you could take a job that looks good only to find out that it was a mistake.
I think that research is the key. The more that you know about individual schools, recruiters, the system, and the laws here, the better protected you will be. This is why I am involved with www.buxiban.com which archives a lot of this information.
I think that the reason most people recommend coming first as it gives you a chance to meet the staff and possibly get a better idea of what really is involved in a position.
| argonfly707 wrote: |
| The contact I have is through GMSC recruiting and the contract is then with Cosmos Education Consultant. |
I am not anti-recruiter. I believe that while there are definitely some bad companies out there, there are also some very good ones too. I think that recruiters can serve a very valuable role for people who probably wouldn't come to Taiwan without this assistance.
The important thing is for you not to place too much importanceon the recruiter. I think that this is why recruiters get such a bad wrap. It is not always because they screw up, but due to the fact that they give their customers the feeling that everything will be done and that no further research is neccessary. Teachers may find that what is provided doesn't then meet their high expectations, and the recruiters then feel that the teacher is being unreasonable.
One thing of importance is for you to realize that any contract you have with a recruiter is pretty worthless. You will be working for a school, not a recruiter, and therefore you only need to have a contract with the school. You may have a services agreement with the recruiter, but that will not protect you, it is just an outline of what the recruiter will do for you.
| argonfly707 wrote: |
| Yes I have read the negatives about Cosmos but it is a chain school that I will be working for and I would feel more comfortable with that. |
Sometimes the recruiters involvement can give you a softer landing than just coming yourself. If however the position is with a chain school then why not just deal directly with the school? By dealing directly you will avoid any miscommunication.
| teacha wrote: |
| Dude,the worst of the wort employers, ethics, or owners of even chains are forced out to recruiters by STIFF COMPETITION & OVERUPPLY of westerners. |
This is an assumption that is only true some of the time. Sometimes schools that are having trouble recruiting teachers themselves due to a bad reputation will then turn to recruiters for help. In most cases though there is no problem with schools that use recruiters, they just choose to use recruiters as it can be quicker and easier to pay for someone to do this work rather than for the school to do it themselves. Particularly if English language ability is a problem their end.
| teacha wrote: |
| The ARC you got, and contract terms, and pay are too regularly illegal to chance being blacklisted/deported over. That happens when you get involved with desperate chain branches, recruiters, etc. |
I don't understand this.
You do not get blacklisted due to problems the schools end, you can only get blacklisted if you fail to give appropriate notice when you leave a position.
Also, how can pay be illegal? Work can be illegal, but I don't see how pay can be illegal.
| teacha wrote: |
| Recruiting agencies are all illegal/not allowed by law. You work for the underworld if you work for one. |
You are wrong there.
There is in fact many articles of legislation that pertain solely to 'Private Employment Services'. Recruiters can be legal companies and have a place here. It is up to the individual to choose whether or not you want to use one, but don't be misled by reports that suggests that the whole industry is crooked. |
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Supercords
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 11
Location: Utah for now
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| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 6:20 am Post subject: |
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I'm also looking for possitives on signing a contract early, before arriving in Taiwan. I called the Taiwanese consulates in L.A. and S.F. - both said it is more difficult and not guaranteed that you will get a 2 month visitor's visa because of all the dishonest people who are just going to teach.
For me, it comes down to flights. I have a $445 one way ticket reserved on Singapore Air, but I can't purchase it unless I plan on getting a work visa lined up before I arrive. If you go with a 2 month visitor's visa, there is really only one way to go: Buy a round trip ticket, with the return ticket being the expensive full fair, then return it after arriving in Taiwan.
I prefer not to do this, but rather be completely legal. I am researching schools and questions to ask before singing a contract. I hope to find a god teaching position through the various job listing sites on the Internet. I just hope they are willing to take the risk of hiring me before meeting me in person. It's frustrating, because most of the job listings are for ASAP, NOW, or next month.
I'm coming out in January, yet nobody seems to be planning ahead for future positions. So far I've replied to a couple schools, but haven't received any good responses.
Shane |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| Supercords wrote: |
| I called the Taiwanese consulates in L.A. and S.F. - both said it is more difficult and not guaranteed that you will get a 2 month visitor's visa because of all the dishonest people who are just going to teach. |
I find this a bit of an odd thing for them to claim.
Firstly, do they offer a visa for coming to look for work? To my knowledge they don't. They offer visas for those who have made work arrangements (resident visa for work) and a visa for those who don't have work but want to come to Taiwan (visitors visa). Surely the purpose of a visitors visa is to enable you to come to Taiwan to visit, which is exactly what you are doing. If and when you find work then you apply for a resident visa and you are legally allowed to work in the interim.
The fact that you can change a visitors visa into a resident visa from in Taiwan certainly suggests to me that the practice as stated above is accepted by the government here. If it was such a no no then the government could quite easily require people to leave the country and re-enter under a resident visa. In fact this used to be the process when I first arrived here, but over the years the government has come to realize that it is impractical.
If you want to obtain a work permit and resident visa before you come then that is your right, but please don't suggest that those who come here first to check things out are being dishonest. I would think that they are being wise in fact.
| Supercords wrote: |
| For me, it comes down to flights. I have a $445 one way ticket reserved on Singapore Air, but I can't purchase it unless I plan on getting a work visa lined up before I arrive. If you go with a 2 month visitor's visa, there is really only one way to go: Buy a round trip ticket, with the return ticket being the expensive full fair, then return it after arriving in Taiwan. |
I am assuming from the above that you are suggesting that if you arrive on a resident visa then you only need a one way ticket. According to the legislation that would be incorrect. So if your intention is to follow the legislation here to the word then you will really need to arrive here with an outbound ticket, regardless of your visa type. Considering that it would seem that one of your main motivations for obtaining a resident visa from overseas has now been dissolved.
Why do you need a return ticket? There is no stipulation for a return ticket. There is a stipulation for an outbound ticket. If you are against getting an open one year return back home but still want to follow the regulations then why not just get an outbound ticket to Hong Kong or somewhere nearby.You can either use this for a holiday, or cash it in when you get here.
| Supercords wrote: |
I prefer not to do this, but rather be completely legal. I am researching schools and questions to ask before singing a contract. I hope to find a god teaching position through the various job listing sites on the Internet. I just hope they are willing to take the risk of hiring me before meeting me in person. It's frustrating, because most of the job listings are for ASAP, NOW, or next month.
I'm coming out in January, yet nobody seems to be planning ahead for future positions. So far I've replied to a couple schools, but haven't received any good responses. |
I agree that it is in your best interests to remain legal.
I don't agree that obtaining a resident visa from overseas by committing to a school before you arrive is the best way to do this.
As you have seen most schools do their hiring around a month before they need you here. So any value in lining a job up months in advance is lost. The reason is that many foreigners pull out f such advanced arrangements and schools are left without a teacher.
Let me ask you, other than the above, what do you think are the benefits of signing a contract and obtaining a resident visa before you arrive? |
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teacha
Joined: 25 Aug 2005
Posts: 186
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| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:25 am Post subject: |
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[quote="clark.w.griswald"]
| Supercords wrote: |
| I called the Taiwanese consulates in L.A. and S.F. - both said it is more difficult and not guaranteed that you will get a 2 month visitor's visa because of all the dishonest people who are just going to teach. |
I find this a bit of an odd thing for them to claim.
Firstly, do they offer a visa for coming to look for work? To my knowledge they don't. They offer visas for those who have made work arrangements (resident visa for work) and a visa for those who don't have work but want to come to Taiwan (visitors visa). Surely the purpose of a visitors visa is to enable you to come to Taiwan to visit, which is exactly what you are doing. If and when you find work then you apply for a resident visa and you are legally allowed to work in the interim.
The fact that you can change a visitors visa into a resident visa from in Taiwan certainly suggests to me that the practice as stated above is accepted by the government here. If it was such a no no then the government could quite easily require people to leave the country and re-enter under a resident visa. In fact this used to be the process when I first arrived here, but over the years the government has come to realize that it is impractical.
If you want to obtain a work permit and resident visa before you come then that is your right, but please don't suggest that those who come here first to check things out are being dishonest. I would think that they are being wise in fact.
| Quote: |
JFC Clark 
They do not want us going to work, they are stopping the oversupply. They do not support the process. America is not Austrailia, Canada or SA. It's Anti travel. We have the hardest time of all Native speakers. |
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Ki
Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 475
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| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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Never sign a contract with a recruiter. And especially never from overseas. Only a school.
You will be working for a recruiter for a recruiter. So basically you salary, which will your recruiter will be skimming off the top every month, will be skimmed off again by the first recruiter who has done nothing for you but referred you to the second recruiter. Not sure exactly who the chain school is you are referring to but I think I know. The chain school itself is okay, in my opinion, but it all depends on which branch you end up in.
Really, stay away from this recruiter. They will stiff you but before they do that they will make your life a living hell. If you want to use a recruiter then go with de-wey. Their rep is actually positive, and not extremely negative, and they won't take $16,000 from your salary every month.
If you really must have the security of a contract before you arrive then go with a chain school, DIRECTLY. Date it a couple of weeks after you arrive to give you enough time to try a few interviews first. Oh and if you want to get out of your current dodgy recruiter contract, just do it. It doesn't mean anything and they will make you sign another different contract when you arrive anyway.
And don't give this recruiter any of your personal items like your degree and passport. They do hold this "as security" to make sure that you sign your contract. |
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Ki
Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 475
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| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Wait. Did you say Cosmos is a chain school or is it a different school you will work for? Cosmos is a recruiter. They don't have any schools. |
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argonfly707
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 46
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks guys,
Ki asked about which was the chain school
I was posing one hundred questions to this potentional contract and one of them was is there a set curricullum and she responded by saying that I would be working for a chain school and that there would be help with the curriculum. Here are the specifics on the contract.
Pay: 55,000NT a month (Which to me is pretty good I think I will be able to live comfortably off that)
Accomidation: Furnished Apartment
Area:Changhua county (Not exactly sure where yet am going to ask that today
Hours: 1-9pm Mon-Fri 10am-3pm Sat
They also provide airport pickup which is nice.
Let me know what you guys think.
Thanks,
Argon[/quote] |
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Ki
Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 475
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| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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What are the hours that you are working? What are the teaching hours? This would be okay (and only okay) if the working/teaching hours were under 25 a week. Be careful of any other contracts they will get you to sign. The 55k is inclusive of a $2-3,000 monthly bonus for no sick leave. So if you take just one day off work (and you do have a 6 day work week) then you lose maybe $5-6000.
Their apartments are bad news. Expect to be given 12 hours to evacuate and be moved elsewhere at any given time. Really, don't sign anything with any recruiter, especially not this one. But if you must sign, remember, you can change the contract clauses to suit your needs. They will be desperate to get you. So don't agree to their illegal bond. Don't agree to their $30,000 contract completion clause.
Oh, and you won't be getting all of that 55k either. They like to have their various fees deducted from this, of which they will neglect to inform you about.
Ask the school if you can work directly for them. They will most likely agree and your salary will increase dramatically. |
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argonfly707
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 46
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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They say I will working about 4-5 teaching hours a day so about 20-25hrs a week. The only thing I can see about 30,000NT is if I quit while my contract is still on I will be charged that service fee. I am going to talk with a representative for Taiwan tonight and I will find out more about the accomidation.
Thanks,
Argon |
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